Finally brewed that lager

[Bryan R]

Well, my 2 cents.
First and foremost, I will never knock someone who does a non-single infusion mash on a German beer. However with that said, I think you have to step back and figure out why one would do a triple decoction. But I think we all already know this... Under modified malt. Let's talk a little about PU since they are the most well known of the breweries utilizing this method. There are a few things that come into play here.. The biggest one being tradition. I have nothing but respect for someone who honors this, it's a rarity in this day and age. They obviously have their own malting facility, where they could make any malt they wanted. The traditional malting with severely undermodified grains, needed a mash schedule that could convert them. Enter the triple decoction.

Now, let's fast forward to us and our malts. Which are all 10 fold more modified than that malt. I am not going to be the one to tell you triple decoction is going to hurt your beer, but I will tell you, I don't know if it will help it either. I am a big fan of Vlad( I really wish he were here), and will never discount his methods and thoughts. I totally understand it, and I know the otherstuff ( lagering, nutrients, etc).

[lhommedieu]

No worries. I'm not one to claim "this method is better." Like most I started with a kit but moved to all-grain on my second brew and never looked back. For a couple of years I concentrated on brewing British bitters, mostly ESB's, so I appreciate the British infusion method and its interplay of pale ale malt, crystal malt, English hops and yeast strains, etc.

Vlad and I have corresponded and I've had the pleasure of brewing with him once or twice. I don't know how he puts up with all of my questions, but he manages to eventually answer with good grace and patience. It should be obvious from my posts that high school chemistry is a distant memory for me, so any post from me here is an attempt to learn, not educate. My wife, a college science double-major and currently a forensic psychology Ph.D., just laughs at my questions.

Tri-Decoction brewing has become for me a sort of holzwege: an old forest path known to woodcutters and foresters that leads off the main trail to a clearing where wood is cut. Heidegger uses the metaphor in both its positive and negative senses: the clearing is a place where light gathers and provides illumination, but the path can itself be disused and overgrown, difficult to find and traverse, not practical. Anyone who has spent time in the forest knows, though, that such paths can be enjoyed despite their difficulties.

[Owenbräu]

[Brody]

Replacement for "Spitz" malt
Question Which malt could be used instead of "Spitz" malt? We are looking for a malt with lower modification and for better foam stability?
Answer We would recommend using Weyermann Carafoam® / Carapils®.
This caramel malt combines a lower modification with enhance of palatefulness and foam improvement.
It’s not only a counterpart to “Spitzmalz” but it has additional benefits.

Interesting - question is then would using say 10% Carafoam in a Helles/Pils make a higher temp protein rest a good idea.

[Techbrau]

Keep it simple. The textbook Hochkurz mash is by far the most commonly used mash by commercial breweries.

[Owenbräu]

[Bryan R]

On paper it may hurt you, and a little chit will help. But in reality we have conducted countless triple, double, single, step infusion, and saw no real world issues with any of them.

[Owenbräu]

Sure. I've also seen people absolutely adamant that you must do a protein rest for 30-60 min, only to find out they are using 10-12% carafoam as well...

I guess it comes down to the idea that we are here bc we want to do what the Germans do, they way they do it, to make something as close as possible to what they make. We can follow all their processes, copy their methods, but we don't have access to their malts. Unless we stop using their processes, then we must do something to make our malts more like theirs. Enter chit, spitz or carafoam.

Maybe another way of thinking about it, what type of mash would the Germans do if they had the malts we use?

[Techbrau]

[Bryan R]