Article on LODO

[Brody]

Anyone come across this? http://www.draymans.com/articles/13.html. Similar concept just Potassium instead of Sodium and lighter dosage.

It's an article from a South African Brewery:

7. Add an antioxidant.

It is now realized that oxidation during mashing has several unwanted effects. Wort gets stale. Proteins containing free-Sulphur Hydrogen groups are oxidized and sulphur-sulphur bonds then formed between them can cause these proteins to form a coating on starch and malt endosperm cell wall fragments. As a result proteolysis, amylolysis and Beta-glucan breakdown are partially inhibited, causing a decrease in the amount of soluble extract obtained, and slows down mash separation. Oxidation of the mash also results in the oxidation of polyphenols. This causes increased colour and astringent bitterness. Even worse, lipid oxidizing enzymes oxidize unsaturated fatty acids and form products that accelerate stale flavours in the finished beer. When using dry milling and dumping malt in through the top of the mashtun air is trapped in the husks again increasing oxidizing potential. Our tiny mashtuns have loads of surface area with air exposure per volume, compared to enclosed mashtuns and bottom filling of big brewers. Good quality sweet wort has a fresh flavour and sparkling quality. This freshness is greatly diminished with long mashing times. Wort tastes dull and bland after a few hours and is irreversible damaged due to oxidation processes. The impact on the final beer is a lack of certain positive flavours – less maltiness, greater astringency and overall dull flavour. Other severe forms of staling (cardboard, aldehyde) may result. Fortunately all this is preventable with the simple technique of adding 20-30 ppm KMS to the mash. There is even now a special kind of anti-oxidant malt that is produced in Europe.

[Brody]

He says their is now an oxidant malt in Europe??

[Kit_B]

There are a few different approaches that have been taken by maltsters, to address the topic of oxidation.
For example, Cargill has introduced a "Low LOX" malt, in an effort to combat oxidative damage in the mash.
I have yet to see it anywhere in my area, but I haven't been looking very hard, either.

[Brody]

I haven't seen it either and couldn't even find it for sale on a google search. Very cool concept.

[Bryan R]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jib.122/pdf

is an article..

Unfortunately its seems as if some are so blinded by hate and rage, that they fail to see the forest for the trees. I thought this was all about comradery and having a good time!

Any-who none of this is new, LODO in brewing is ages old, the use of sulfites is ages old as well. Just because one simply "throws in a campden tablet to ones mash" means little of anything, and its certainly a bold statement to say that because of it, that means one does or does not have a problem. Should I ask for anyone who says that to back it up with scientific proof

Dough in is always the biggest hotside problem, why? Because you take oxygen soaked water and mix it with oxygen soaked malt in an oxygen rich environment. Adding 1 tablet to the mash AFTER the all this takes place does nothing. I have not run the numbers yet, but I don't think 1 tablet has enough scavenging power to even knock out half the the DO in the grain let alone all the water. So therefore one has to follow the proper steps to test this method, which were all laid out in the paper. Its really simple if you step back and look at it.

Preboil water to knock most of DO, dose SMB to remove reaming DO, and actively protect the water from ingressing any more.
Maintain as little o2 as possible for transfers and mashing/lautering boiling
Ferment and do the same on the cold side.

Thats really all. Honestly. Try it or don't, it's just beer remember?

[Bryan R]

Here is another:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 3517.x/pdf

Stuff like this has always been available on the web, I really suggest everyone reads these(more than once), and then starts some google-fu'ing of their own. It may take awhile but it *should* start to sink in.

[Brandon]

"Because you take oxygen soaked water and mix it with oxygen soaked malt in an oxygen rich environment." - don't forget the heat to really get the reactions going.

[Bryan R]

[Kit_B]

Obviously, there are numerous ways to mitigate oxygen, in the brewhouse.
And, I think several were mentioned in the instructional guide we put out...
Degassing columns, large-scale water treatment plants, de-oxygenation membranes, ultrasonic transducers, inert gas injections, steam...
They're all ways to combat oxygen & there are countless more approaches that get used, in real brewhouses.
Preboiling mash water & adding a small dose of sulfites are merely simple ways to do this efficiently, on a small scale.

The fact of the matter remains that the major root of staling is oxidation.
Nearly any brewing scientist will attest to that.

Steve's apple on the countertop analogy is probably the best example of it.

[Bryan R]

http://www.cargillfoods.com/wcm/groups/ ... 051727.pdf

Cargill must be off their rockers..Why would they have a malt like this for something that doesn't matter?

Luckily we chose a hochkurz, that misses the 2 band of prime LOX activity. that coupled with lodo, it may not be worth it. Those who chose not to go lodo or do single infusions may see a benefit.