Hill Farmstead's reading Kunze

General beer discussion, beer talk, pictures, etc...

Moderator: Brandon

Techbrau
German Brewing
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:45 pm

Re: Hill Farmstead's reading Kunze

Postby Techbrau » Thu May 05, 2016 1:50 pm

Agreed that this isn't new information, but I'm happy that people are talking about it again. Things had really plateaued for a while.

My hunch is that oxidation-driven changes of malt phenols and melanoidins (perhaps more accurately, Maillard reaction products in general) are the primary players here with respect to the flavor and color differences we're seeing (see my edits and elaborations in my previous post) and would love to see what other ideas people come up with. Yes, both phenols and MRPs are double edged swords because they're antioxidants which protect the beer and actually taste very good in their reduced states, but when their antioxidant power is used up their flavors actually get worse. It's clear that we're seeing a big difference in the quality of the wort/beer being made, and hopefully a better understanding why that's happening on a theoretical level will allow us to make even more process improvements.

With respect to the candi syrup I imagine you're referencing the fact that you can't make MRPs from sugar and DAP alone because there is no source of amino acids.
Last edited by Techbrau on Thu May 05, 2016 7:19 pm, edited 5 times in total.
If you always do what you've always done, then you'll always get what you've always gotten.
User avatar
Owenbräu
German Brewing
Posts: 1196
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:23 pm

Hill Farmstead's reading Kunze

Postby Owenbräu » Thu May 05, 2016 2:42 pm

Yeah, if you look through the forum, we list every reference we could find on the internet related to early work with sulfites in the mash. Nothing new there. Americans were literally playing around with sulfites in brewing before the pH scale was invented. Google books is a great resource.

Interesting to see what you come up with. I don't see anything other than preservation of malt compounds through preventing their oxidation playing a significant role in the wort making process. Long term storage, sure, there is more at play. After autolysis of yeast, of course. Sulfites aren't the only solution to lodo brewing, just the easiest for homebrewers. Bamforth is looking into the vitamin C and ascorbic acid oxidase complex, as it seems to be a very good oxygen scavenger during the mash. Vitamin C can become highly reactive downstream, so you have to be careful. He also talks of very small particles that have significant flavor contributions, and large molecules that have very little flavor. This is consistent with the theory on phenols and melanoidins.
- The best do the basics better -

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests