German Brewing

We have been talking a lot about that elusive "German Flavor". Kai has a great video that talks about it, and obviously he is on that quest as well.

What are your thoughts and experiences with that German/European beer flavor and what have you done to re-create it in your beers?

You can watch Kai's video here:

I agree with Steve with the addition of Munich malt. I find also that the type of yeast makes a difference too. I have only used a 2-3 different lager strains from White Labs so far. I do get a nice Pils malt taste from WLP833 German Bock. I kind of stay with this yeast unless it is unavailable, then I will try another one.

Personally, I don't think the flavor we're after is 100% attainable. I think a lot of it has to do with the terrior of the malts and hops used as well as house yeast, water, and process. We just don't have the ability to complete replicate that flavor. But, I do believe we can get close. I suppose that's good enough.

@Kranz - Wlp833 is one of my favorite yeasts as well. It's generally "clean", but it always seems to leave just a trace of a mineral/sulfur character in the beers, which is very pleasant.

I keep coming back to the Reinheitsgebot, and the fact that Germans have a totally different way of thinking about things than we do.

If the malt flavor in the beer is lacking, we Americans tend to think "add some more malt" - Germans think more along the lines of "clean up everything else so the malt shines through." I get that feeling from Kai alot when watching this video.

I've been experimenting with German beers for a year or two now. I've used German wheat malt, Bavarian wheat DME, Bohemian pilsner malt, Acidulated malt, Munich 10L, & carared as some examples that have given me the dampfbier, kottbusser, bavarian wheat...even a watermelon hefeweizen. They just seem to have that good quality, toasted bread sort of flavor...with some also having that bit of nuttiness. Carared is a pretty good color toner. And it's my opinion, after much reading for my home brewing books, that WL029 kolsch yeast is a throwback of a sort. Centuries ago, they didn't have the pure yeasts we do today. They seemed to be a mixture that, depending on the fermenting temps, produced a lager or ale. This is where my reasoning lies. WL029's sweet spot is 65-69F, right where ale yeasts are happy. But it produces a lager-like balance & that bit of crispness on the back that lagers have. So I ferment the dampfbier & kottbusser with it. I also am experimenting with what I call " hybrid lagers", as I don't have the temp control to use true lager strains. So I use a throwback instead. I've been trying to reproduce that " real beer flavor" of the lagers from the 50's into about 1965 that I remember from the lagers made here in Cleveland when I was young. They were mostly German brewers &/or their descendants that came here to start fresh. So that got me into home brewing. That elusive color & flavor I remember from decades past. I'm up to version 4 of the hybrids so far, & have produced some " Euro" style results. Just not the ones I strictly remember...yet.

Bryan R, 400 German lager batches? That is impressive. I quit for a few years after getting nothing but butter bombs. Been at it since 2012 with only a couple of dumped batches.

I think that flavor is a combination of good German ingredients but most important imo is yeast and proper fermentation. I've come close a few times but its hard to be consistent.

IMO, the biggest difficulty lies in achieving all the things that make "it" simultaneously. I've had beers where the right flavors were present, but the balance was off, or the body or mouthfeel were off.