Ok, crush... troubleshoot me.

[Techbrau]

Interesting that both of you who had conversion issues use a MM3, crushed too tight, and fixed the problem by backing off the gap.

I use a MM2 with the 2" rollers and am able to crush at 0.027" without issue. So it sounds like 2 roller and 3 roller mills need to be tuned differently.

[mchrispen]

I spent a lot of time and did a deep dive on milling when I bought the MM3. The crush at .050 on the MM3 is nearly identical to the MM2 at .034 without any conditioning. With conditioning, husk separation is nearly perfect. To be clear - the adjustment is specific to the grit size generation - and the top roller is not adjustable.

Malt conditioning is magic, I must say. Besides, gap size is less important than the right crush for your system.

At 0.025" I got a result pretty close to what Bryan posted.

[Bilsch]

[Techbrau]

[ajk]

Are you measuring your liquor volumes correctly? A lot of us have made big changes to our systems—maybe you're introducing more water than you think, or something like that.

[Ski]

I'm with Wobdee on this one. I never crush finer than 0.040" on a Bulldog 2-roller and get fantastic conversion. I think flour is ok if you're not recirculating. If you are recirculating, I believer a coarse crush helps to let the liquid percolate more easily, and that aids conversion. Once the kernel is cracked/broken, and the wort can wash it, then the enzymes will do their job. And conditioning does wonders for the husks. I've never got stuck or had low efficiency. Never had to use rice hulls. However, I've only done one batch with SMB so far. I'll be doing my first well=planned LODO brew in the next few days, so I'll report back if there is any change in mash efficiency or attenuation. I sure hope you find the solution.

[Owenbräu]

[mchrispen]

> Any chance when you split the malt on the mini-mash that one jar got more flour than the other?

The batches were milled separately and gathered into the jars.

I need to do this again - but going to set up the mill a bit different this time... and condition without the SMB for both.

[Futur]

Hi mchrispen did you manage to get your efficiency issues sorted?

I'm using a grainfather also but ever since applying the LODO methodology my efficiency has been hit by a truck as well. My first no sparge attempt on the grainfather (i've never done a no sparge on the GF) netted me approximately 35% mash efficiency. This wasn't a full volume mash.

My next attempt at LODO using a fly sparge got me 55% (I normally hit 73-75%). This is using 100mg/L of SMB.

I'm not sure what to try next to be honest as the only thing that has changed is adding SMB to the batch and conditioning the malt. I'm thinking of trying a full volume mash in the grainfather with a nylon bag and recirculation and see what that nets me. It should provide better protection from O2 ingress compared to the fly sparge.

[mchrispen]

I am brewing tomorrow on the GrainFather - so I should have a good idea of where I sit. Last brew day was a bust on the Brew-Magic... a tree crew started their chipper shredder when I had the garage door open and dumped tree and branch dust into the mash while I was racing to the button. That plus the heat had me dehydrated, cramping and puking after cleaning up the mess. My crush was too fine and the flour impounded my pump - and I got scorching in the MLT. It's my fault - I knew going this fine would do this. So I have a compromise setting, with conditioning, that works in mini-mash tests. With the freakish heat - I am only brewing inside - so will figure out the GF pretty quickly.

Here's the thing - I cannot explain with the math and chemistry how MBS *might* be affecting conversion - it shouldn't. But remember that essentially a mash is an oxidative process (liquefaction) and excessive (meaning free bi-sulfite and sulfite during liquefaction) MBS *may* be intercepting some free oxygen ions as the water molecule splits to catalyze beta and alpha enzymes with the malt. Bi-sulfite is exceedingly potent as an antioxidant. It's a very shaky theory as these guys here are not seeing the issue, and it comes down to a secondary/tertiary chemical system in the mash. I am hopeful that BrewTan will have a similar effect without the sulfur component... but I have to say - the two successful brews with MBS have been stellar and eye opening!