Dopplebock

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Smellyglove
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Re: Dopplebock

Postby Smellyglove » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:20 pm

Weizenberg wrote:Abbey, Techbrau and yours truly concocted many a German brew recipe in collaboration. He has an excellent grasp of the subject, have no doubt. Both really dig the Bavarian styles.


I don't doubt it.. But still, since I didn't feel you answered the question, to me it seems like an Americanized version of it, typical one or two malts "extra".

The ones I've brewed are with pima, both muma's and a tiny bit of carafa sp 3. Also did two where I swapped pima for vima. Very clean in the malt-department. Dades, plums, etc. The ones with pima were a bit more defined than those with vima. Also did two with choco, but neh. But I'm after just one more "thing" which would give me just a tad more depth, looking for a 1% contribution, but adding three crystals seems to me as muddy.
Techbrau
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Re: Dopplebock

Postby Techbrau » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:39 pm

Caramunich II or III. I'd start with II at a rate around 5%.
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Weizenberg
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Re: Dopplebock

Postby Weizenberg » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:04 am

Smellyglove wrote:I don't doubt it.. But still, since I didn't feel you answered the question, to me it seems like an Americanized version of it, typical one or two malts "extra".


It's not the amount but the blend that matters.

If you brew invert large volumes, your malt may be made to order or in situ. Often this will allow o drop a few which were previously used to adjust the base malt.

This can save quite a bit of storage silos.

When working with stock materials I often found that even with Helles, 3 caramalts are necessary, but the blending needs doing carefully.

It really depends on what you are aiming for. Categorically saying that 3 caramalts define it as an American product is simply wrong.
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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Dopplebock

Postby Ancient Abbey » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:27 am

Smellyglove wrote:I don't doubt it.. But still, since I didn't feel you answered the question, to me it seems like an Americanized version of it, typical one or two malts "extra".

The ones I've brewed are with pima, both muma's and a tiny bit of carafa sp 3. Also did two where I swapped pima for vima. Very clean in the malt-department. Dades, plums, etc. The ones with pima were a bit more defined than those with vima. Also did two with choco, but neh. But I'm after just one more "thing" which would give me just a tad more depth, looking for a 1% contribution, but adding three crystals seems to me as muddy.


Pays to read the whole thread ;)

Ancient Abbey wrote:Sounds good. I've switched up to the "clean peaks" method. Basically, fewer malts at higher percentages result in cleaner flavor peaks, rather than a muddy profile. Per the above recipe, I've dropped the carared and just do 5% each of caramumich and caraaroma. If it were a standard bock, I would just do one karamalt, but dopple seems to benefit from two.


Ancient Abbey wrote:Yeah, it's quite a contrast with where we started with "flavor loading" and trying to use everything in the Weyermann catalog. I've found clean flavor peaks work better than complex layering, and from what I read, Ayinger believes the same.


Some Bavarian breweries use 2 malts + sinamar for dunkel, some use 5 malts + sinamar. Like Nico was saying, it all depends on what flavors you are chasing. Some require only a single caramalt, some require layering several. I think your "americanized" label refers more to the percentage of caramalts, overall sweetness and lack of attenuation, and not necessarily the number of malts used.

I was fortunate enough to get a couple of fresh 4-packs of Celebrator, and they definitely have chocolate notes in the finish before they age out and turn to kibble and soy sauce. I've since found Carafa special I or II at 1% will do nicely.
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Smellyglove
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Re: Dopplebock

Postby Smellyglove » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:26 pm

Sorry. I'm not visiting this forum very often. I did indeed write my question before I read the entire thread, when I wrote my first question I didn't realize there were two more pages in this thread!

The reason why I used the word "americanized" is that when I'm looking for inspiration for a german beer, it seems like the suggestions made by americans often contain one or two more malts than the german "clones". Wonder how it would be if I asked a russian..

I've become very fond of using less malts, but using them correctly, and challenge myself to up my process, and grist composition. But hey, I'm using 14 different malts in my RIS, so I might be throwing rocks in a glass-house. But when it comes to germans, I really love using as few malts as possible, because I feel german beer is a whole lot of "process".

I can drive across the border to Sweden to get my dose of Celebrators. Last time out of 21 beers six of them were celebrators, the rest were random german lagers.

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