Helles Brewday

[Owenbräu]

[Bryan R]

Off the top of my head-

I hate late hopped German beers, weird flavors. 15 ibu tinseth puts you at the top of the bitterness charts.
I didn't see any NA in your water
The mash you used with the 70c rest may thin the beer out too much.

I see the beer being more bitter and thin/flat that you want it to be.

Thanks for the pictures though, I love seeing brewday photos.

[Brody]

[Owenbräu]

[Bryan R]

Techincally yes, but you still have beta there, and will absolutely have a thinner beer at 70, rather than doing the 72 with no beta. 70 is fine for a Pils, but I would say not suitable for a Helles. Your timings were not long enough on the rests(for me) either.

[Owenbräu]

[Bryan R]

Correct. You want the dryest beer you can get.. pretty much. But the body to make up for it. Incomplete fermentation body, and fully attenuated body are 2 different things. One being sweet, one being full.

[Owenbräu]

John Palmer did a summary of some peer reviewed literature in a series on Mash Times (Part I & II), and claimed the life of beta amylase at 149F is less than an hour. I don't see how there is enough beta amylase activity to claim a difference in fermentability between 70C and 72C. Maybe on a single infusion, or with a single saccharification rest (like Narzis advocates with the marzen). After a ramp up to beta, a 45-60 minute rest, then ramp up to alpha, you're 90-100 minutes into the mash and beta should be gone.

I will say I have taken this with a bit of a grain of salt too. He also cited research that showed wort fermentability increased with a mash that went beyond the life of beta amylase. At the same time, he did not state whether the researchers were investigating pure enzymes in a beaker or actual enzymes from a mash (see Bryan's post on limit dextrinase). Additionally, everyone here seems to swear that you need 2-3 hrs (or more) in the mash to get an authentically German tasting beer (although Bryan did post that the mash tun is your enemy, not your friend, and Nico posted that the mash is most trivial part of brewing a helles. This suggests to me to get in, get it converted and get out as fast as possible). Some of this is recalcitrance and steeped tradition of course; however, I also believe that if it didn't work, then people would stop doing it. As with may things, just because it works does't mean that's how you need to do it.

[Bryan R]

I personally do the bulk of my mashes at 62/72/77 currently. I also rest those at those temps for 60 minutes a piece( 77 for 10). For me and my system, that allows me to do what I need to do. You are only looking for attenuation and body, from your mash. Its not going to produce some magical flavor or anything. So if you can do shorter times, and get what you need.. Awesome! ( but I don't think you will). So to side with Nico it is trivial(in pretty much every beer short of Hefe), and it also is your enemy, but not because of enzymes.

[Owenbräu]