Low oxygen baseline recipes for German lagers

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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Low oxygen baseline recipes for German lagers

Postby Ancient Abbey » Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:22 am

Nothing different than what you'll see on YouTube. Get rid of what sinks first and settles last, keep the middle.
Last edited by Ancient Abbey on Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Low oxygen baseline recipes for German lagers

Postby phishie » Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:36 am

Ancient Abbey wrote:Nothing different that what you'll see on YouTube. Get rid of what sinks first and settles last, keep the middle.


Gotcha. I really don't want to mix water into the cake, I always believed the left over beer was the best environment to store the yeast in but I'm not very good at keeping trub out of the fermenter so maybe it's a necessary evil.

Stolen from here (sounds awfully similar to some wise things said by a long gone member of the AHA forum):

Why is washing yeast with boiled tap water a bad idea? Well, as mentioned above, boiled tap water is not sterile. It also has a near neutral to alkaline pH, which raises the pH of the culture. Finally, boiled water does not possess the antiseptic qualities of ethanol. In essence, we strip away the force field that the culture built for itself and introduce a source of infection when we replace green beer with boiled water. Contrary to what many amateur brewers believe, a culture rinsed with and stored under boiled tap water does not go dormant. The culture remains in the stationary phase where it starves to death and cell autolysis provides an abundant source of nitrogen on which germinated spores can feast.

Is boiled wort is absolutely sterile? No, boiled wort is not absolutely sterile. However, it has an important quality that boiled tap water does not; namely, an acidic pH (usually around 5.2). As mentioned above, most bacteria are pH sensitive; therefore, spores that survive the boil will find less than hospitable conditions after the wort cools. Add in the fact that brewers usually pitch a mass of yeast cells that is large enough to make quick work of consuming dissolved oxygen, lowering the pH even further, and producing ethanol, and it will be difficult for any spore that survived the boil to germinate.
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Big Monk
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Low oxygen baseline recipes for German lagers

Postby Big Monk » Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:11 am

I don't think that you'll be surprised to know that they are the same person and if you are observant you'll see that he has returned to the AHA Forum albeit without the regularity that he once posted at.

It's interesting you reference S. Cerevisiae here because he is an example of someone who possessed a ton of empirical findings and experience with brewing yeast who proposed an idea that got him flamed (initially) by various communities. People eventually came around to his starter method.
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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Low oxygen baseline recipes for German lagers

Postby Ancient Abbey » Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:42 am

I use a pressure cooker for all things yeast related. At 15 PSI for 15 min, glassware, water and wort for all yeast cultures is truly sterile. Yeast cakes are stored on beer, not water (even though RO has a pH of ~6). I start with a 1L bottle, and pour in the yeast cake. I wait 15-30 min, then transfer to another 1L bottle. I wait 8-12 hrs, then pour off most of the top liquid. At this point I transfer to a 500ml bottle so the airspace inside the bottle is minimal. If I'm going to use it quickly, then I don't bother. You can repeat this process before using the cake out using autoclaved water for a little extra rinsing.

Are you guys referencing Mark? Sacc?
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Big Monk
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Re: Low oxygen baseline recipes for German lagers

Postby Big Monk » Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:07 am

Yeah.
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phishie
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Re: Low oxygen baseline recipes for German lagers

Postby phishie » Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:27 am

Big Monk wrote:I don't think that you'll be surprised to know that they are the same person and if you are observant you'll see that he has returned to the AHA Forum albeit without the regularity that he once posted at.

It's interesting you reference S. Cerevisiae here because he is an example of someone who possessed a ton of empirical findings and experience with brewing yeast who proposed an idea that got him flamed (initially) by various communities. People eventually came around to his starter method.


Ah, I was not aware he was posting again, that is good news.
phishie
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Re: Low oxygen baseline recipes for German lagers

Postby phishie » Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:29 am

Ancient Abbey wrote:I use a pressure cooker for all things yeast related. At 15 PSI for 15 min, glassware, water and wort for all yeast cultures is truly sterile. Yeast cakes are stored on beer, not water (even though RO has a pH of ~6). I start with a 1L bottle, and pour in the yeast cake. I wait 15-30 min, then transfer to another 1L bottle. I wait 8-12 hrs, then pour off most of the top liquid. At this point I transfer to a 500ml bottle so the airspace inside the bottle is minimal. If I'm going to use it quickly, then I don't bother. You can repeat this process before using the cake out using autoclaved water for a little extra rinsing.

Are you guys referencing Mark? Sacc?


That is a good process, I wrongly assumed with your reference to youtube guides that you (as many videos do) were mixing your boiled & cooled water into the cake rather than leaving some beer behind on top of the cake.
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Re: Low oxygen baseline recipes for German lagers

Postby wobdee » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:26 am

What kind of malt bill do you guys like for a Marzen? I like the looks of Tech's baseline recipe but there's a big variety on base malt percentages. Usually I go with a near 50/50 Pima/muma split with a little cm thrown in there but I'm looking to change things up. I saw a Narzis Marzen recipe with 90 vima and 10 c25 that I thought may be interesting to try.
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Re: Low oxygen baseline recipes for German lagers

Postby brewcrew7 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:26 pm

wobdee wrote:What kind of malt bill do you guys like for a Marzen?


Having had my 5th Oktoberfest party last fall, and previously having stuck with 90% Vienna 10% Dark Munich, I went with two different versions in anticipation of brewing low-oxygen. I chose Techbrau's OP Festbier with 30% Vienna and OP Marzen with 45 Pils, 45 Munich and 10% CH+CM2. While my original formulation always was the first beer to kick, the last two both kicked with the Festbier coming out on top. I still have not brewed a low-oxygen beer save a mini-mash, so I'm not sure if I can say I've got my go-to. The 10% caramalt seemed a bit much from what I recall. So you are right, there seems to be a wide field to play with this style but with this beer I'd kinda like to have a staple.

I'd like to craft a Helles Bock/Maibock this month but it looks like I came up with exactly Techbrau's Festbier but at bock-strength. :? And I'd also like to come up with a pale sub 10P beer but to keep it from being watery thin. Do I load up on the darker kilned basemalt or boost caramalt, if just considering grist?
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Re: Low oxygen baseline recipes for German lagers

Postby Techbrau » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:28 pm

I haven't made a sub-10 plato beer, but the first thing I'd try is probably increasing the caramalt percentage to 10-15%. It won't be as much as it sounds like since your grist is significantly smaller compared to a 12-13p beer, and you'll need to make up for the reduced amount of unfermentable sugar coming from the smaller base malt charge.

70% pilsner + 15% vienna + 15% carahell might not be a bad start for a 9 or 10 plato beer.
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