Favorite German Pilsner Hop Combos

Post your tried-and-true recipes

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Nick_D
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Re: Favorite German Pilsner Hop Combos

Postby Nick_D » Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:59 am

Ancient Abbey wrote:
Nick_D wrote:This sounds good to me....... I'm brewing my pilsner this weekend. Have Hallertau and Tettnanger hops. Would love to get something approaching the Warsteiner flavour in terms of hopping. Would this approach be in that direction ? Was initially just going to do as is suggested in the "Low oxygen baseline recipes for German lagers" thread of "26-30 IBUs, 30% as FWH, 35% at 60 min, 35% at 30 min", which has no real late addition.

I've settled on mash hopping, first wort hopping and a short boil hopping, which can vary from 10min to a whirlpool addition depending on the style. The 30 min addition doesn't taste as good to me as FWH or SBH, nor does it provide the IBU of MH and FWH, so I never use one. I use 10-15% of my total IBU at SBH, then split the remainder of the desired IBU between MH and FWH. So, for something like Warsteiner, I would do 45/45/10 as MH/FWH/SBH. If you aren't interested in MH, then change that addition to full boil hopping and do 45/45/10 as FWH/FBH/SBH.

Sounds good ! I'll give the 45/45/10 MH/FWH/SBH a go. Never done mash hopping before! sounds interesting. Like a super version of FWH.

Thanks!
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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Favorite German Pilsner Hop Combos

Postby Ancient Abbey » Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:08 am

I started MH because of the antioxidant properties. From tasting my mash samples, I found the hop flavor was quite nice.
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Smellyglove
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Re: Favorite German Pilsner Hop Combos

Postby Smellyglove » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:37 am

How many g/l do people usually use?

My reference is 1g/l @ 15 minutes, then add magnum for bittering. I feel I need to bump it get get more of a northern german style.
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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Favorite German Pilsner Hop Combos

Postby Ancient Abbey » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:24 pm

I like that rate for pilsner. I find 0.2-0.4 g/L is adequate for malty styles.
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Weizenberg
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Re: Favorite German Pilsner Hop Combos

Postby Weizenberg » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:56 pm

Unless a lab analysis is available, the exact figures are not known. However, current established practices usually achieve results within desired ballparks. As one goes lower in the scale, differences can become much more prominent. Thus, to a certain extent, answering your question I would say that a certain amount of trial and error applies in finding one's subjective optima.
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Smellyglove
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Re: Favorite German Pilsner Hop Combos

Postby Smellyglove » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:35 pm

Weizenberg wrote:Unless a lab analysis is available, the exact figures are not known. However, current established practices usually achieve results within desired ballparks. As one goes lower in the scale, differences can become much more prominent. Thus, to a certain extent, answering your question I would say that a certain amount of trial and error applies in finding one's subjective optima.


I agree. Just wanted to see which references others use. But the 1g/L is @15 minutes. I did a dunkel the other day and went down to 0.5g/l. the bittering addition is just to top up to get to a target calculated IBU.
Techbrau
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Re: Favorite German Pilsner Hop Combos

Postby Techbrau » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:52 pm

I find that the flavor and aroma I get from hop additions at various times depends a lot on the boil vigor. With a low boil-off (~6%), late hop additions (15 min or later) get overwhelming pretty fast, and add a vegetal note that I don't really like. I prefer 20ish minutes for a strong hop aroma, whereas 30 minutes seems to get me something a bit more in line with commercial examples. I have a feeling that the discrepancy between my experience and a commercial system is the fact that at large scale the wort spends an extra 30+ minutes at high temperature post-boil during the whirlpool, whereas I chill pretty fast.

If you're boiling off a small amount of liquid, like 6% over 60-70 minutes, try adding 2/3 of your total alpha acids at 60 and 1/3 at 30. You can also do something like 1/2 at 70, 1/4 at 45, 1/4 at 30, or 1/2 at 60, 1/4 at 40, 1/4 at 20, etc. 30 ish IBUs for pils is about right.

I think using high AA% varieties for bittering (like Perle or magnum) is a good idea. You want to cut down the total hop matter in the boil to as little as possible. For flavor and aroma you will need to experiment and find what you like. Lately I've been enjoying Tradition for that role.
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Re: Favorite German Pilsner Hop Combos

Postby Smellyglove » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:32 pm

.
Last edited by Smellyglove on Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Favorite German Pilsner Hop Combos

Postby Smellyglove » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:35 pm

.
Last edited by Smellyglove on Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Favorite German Pilsner Hop Combos

Postby Smellyglove » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:36 pm

Smellyglove wrote:
Smellyglove wrote:
Techbrau wrote:I find that the flavor and aroma I get from hop additions at various times depends a lot on the boil vigor. With a low boil-off (~6%), late hop additions (15 min or later) get overwhelming pretty fast, and add a vegetal note that I don't really like. I prefer 20ish minutes for a strong hop aroma, whereas 30 minutes seems to get me something a bit more in line with commercial examples. I have a feeling that the discrepancy between my experience and a commercial system is the fact that at large scale the wort spends an extra 30+ minutes at high temperature post-boil during the whirlpool, whereas I chill pretty fast.

If you're boiling off a small amount of liquid, like 6% over 60-70 minutes, try adding 2/3 of your total alpha acids at 60 and 1/3 at 30. You can also do something like 1/2 at 70, 1/4 at 45, 1/4 at 30, or 1/2 at 60, 1/4 at 40, 1/4 at 20, etc. 30 ish IBUs for pils is about right.

I think using high AA% varieties for bittering (like Perle or magnum) is a good idea. You want to cut down the total hop matter in the boil to as little as possible. For flavor and aroma you will need to experiment and find what you like. Lately I've been enjoying Tradition for that role.


I'm a hop-head. I love American style hop forward beers. I've experimented a lot and read thousands of pages about hop oils.

What you describe about boil vigour seems on par. The delicate oils, like Myrcene are boiled away at the blink of an eye. I feel that the noble hops benefit from a longer boil time, just to get rid of that extreme floral thing going on (just because I myself don't like too much of the floral stuff in a lager), although noble hops don't contain much myrcene, they do contain mostly farnesene and humulene, which does not has as low boil off temp as myrcene, those are the oils which is mostly "noble hops". Everything will be boiled away eventually. But the timing if adding hops in the boil is alpha omega to get the hop profile right. You need to either not boil away the oils you want, or boil away the oils you do not want to make the oils you want, to shine.

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