Hefeweizen

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Smellyglove
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Smellyglove » Mon May 08, 2017 3:35 pm

I'm finally up and riding the Hefeweizen-horse again after two infected batches and have a question which might be stupid. I can't afford any Narziss-books or the likes so I hope I can get some answers here.

The decoction. I did a single decoction on this one. Short question. What if I skipped the procedure where I hold the decoction at sacch temps, and went straight to the boil? Just boil it and add it back in. The temp-raise-effect of adding it back in is no-existant in my brewery since I do full mashes. it only raises the temp about 2-3 degrees C. And pulling several decoctions would currently be a pita since i need to shut down the pump every time I add the decoction back.

The thought I'm playing with is pull a decoction, after the 62C-rest. Boil it, and add it back when the main mash is at mashout-temps. It's already converted at beta-temps, I get the effect of the boil, but what else will I be missing?
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Weizenberg
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Weizenberg » Mon May 08, 2017 5:38 pm

You don't need mechanical means to dissolve all starches (decoction). Simply mash longer than you would normally do for a step infusion. You may need to start a bit lower too.

What works really well is the Hermann Verfahren (maltase mash).
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Smellyglove
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Smellyglove » Mon May 08, 2017 6:06 pm

Weizenberg wrote:You don't need mechanical means to dissolve all starches (decoction). Simply mash longer than you would normally do for a step infusion. You may need to start a bit lower too.

What works really well is the Hermann Verfahren (maltase mash).


I'm aldready doing the Hermann Verfahren. But I'm curios about the effect of what I proposed. My MT isn't keeping the temp good enough unless I use the HERMS. And my HERMS is sort of the key to where I'm at, with temp raises and all, clarity of wort etc. I don't like manual labor.
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Weizenberg
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Weizenberg » Mon May 08, 2017 6:17 pm

You will get marginally more fermentables when holding the decoction at the right temps.

It really depends at which temperatures you pulled it. For a hochkurz (dough-in 62C) many nowadays heat straight up.

Another thing to appreciate is that many stopped the decoction boil and just hold it hot at 95C (eg Schneider). This saves considerable time and energy.
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Smellyglove
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Smellyglove » Tue May 16, 2017 12:29 pm

I have yet another question.

I kegged my last hefe two days ago. I kegget it at 10C. That beer was absolutely stellar. To me it tasted like all the references do. Aroma, flavor, mouthfeel, everything was there. I felt like I finally nailed it.

Day after, after chilling it to 4C, and serving, that hefe aroma and taste was already diminished to the point that I got a bit dissapointed. I turn the get on it's head before I serve from it if it has been sitting a while in the fridge.

Any input?

I can add that it did create more foam since i forced in co2 through shaking. Temperature was 10c.

What the hell is going on with my beer?
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Techbrau » Tue May 16, 2017 12:53 pm

If you didn't naturally carbonate it in the keg, and instead racked fully fermented beer and then force carbonated it, you oxidized the fuck out of the beer which resulted in the flavor loss.

Have you read the PDF?
If you always do what you've always done, then you'll always get what you've always gotten.
Smellyglove
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Smellyglove » Tue May 16, 2017 1:14 pm

Smellyglove wrote:I have yet another question.

I kegged my last hefe two days ago. I kegget it at 10C. That beer was absolutely stellar. To me it tasted like all the references do. Aroma, flavor, mouthfeel, everything was there. I felt like I finally nailed it.

Day after, after chilling it to 4C, and serving, that hefe aroma and taste was already diminished to the point that I got a bit dissapointed. I turn the get on it's head before I serve from it if it has been sitting a while in the fridge.

Any input?

I can add that it did create more foam since i forced in co2 through shaking. Temperature was 10c when kegging. I've also tried bringing it back up to 10C the day after in the glass.

What the hell is going on with my beer?
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Weizenberg
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Weizenberg » Tue May 16, 2017 6:01 pm

Looks like he didn't read it but drank plenty! Lol (sorry, but an empty quoted post is on a silver platter ;) )

I'm perplexed how crude people treat Hefeweizen. Seriously. It won't work. To get good results you need to be as dedicated as with Helles, and the approach does change too.

Basically, Hefeweizen in a keg is a no-no. Unless I hear that one is willing to bottle condition, any further discussion would be a waste of time.
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Smellyglove
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Smellyglove » Wed May 17, 2017 7:18 am

I often mistake the edit and quote button om this forum, sorry.

I transferred it in a closed loop, after pushing star san out of the keg, filled it until the gas-return hose had beer in it, purged it (close to nothing to purge), then forced it. Been doing this several years, no noticable effect of oxidation.

Anyhow. So. I guess I'll try krausening that one too. Will be brewing a new one tomorrow.

But. I dont see how it would make a huge impact. Krausening is to scavenge oxygen and carbonate it. This issue is more about the taste and aroma, and mouthfeel being less. The quality of aroma and taste is the same, just a bit less. No hint of oxidation what so ever. Which makes me think its a yeast-in-suspension-thing together with temperature. If I heat the beer a bit, and foam it up, its back to business.

I'll bottle some bottles and see how it acts with proper carbonation and higher serving temperature.
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Weizenberg
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Weizenberg » Wed May 17, 2017 7:54 am

Here is how it's done

- Use as little SMB as possible. 20 mgl is enough
- Sauregut is optional
- Mash at higher pH than normal ~5.6-5.8
- More protein means more work in the lower temperature ranges (~40 minutes extra). You can use the maltase mash (infusion), or just do the classic one where you step the proteolytic range 50,53,55 and then continue as you would otherwise. Decoctions are not necessary.
- Short mashes are a guarantee to have bad yield. To process the starches fully, you will need a mash that is at least 60 minutes longer than for lager
- Because it's unfiltered, the hops note is much stronger. Thus 12-14 IBU are plently
- You probably know all about fermentation from your ale days
- Speise. That's quintessential. Don't ferment the entire wort. Set some aside and use it as priming sugar when you BOTTLE the weizen.
- End of fermentation. Give it one day to settle. Then drop the temperature to 10C and come back next day. Add the speise.
- once mixed with speise, fill int bottle, cap, and then let it ferment at room temperature for a week, then at 10-14C to condition.
- Wait 5 weeks and enjoy
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