Hefeweizen

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Smellyglove
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Smellyglove » Wed May 17, 2017 8:09 am

Alright. I'll try skipping the keg entirely this time.
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Cavpilot2000
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Cavpilot2000 » Wed May 17, 2017 9:51 am

Weizenberg wrote:Here is how it's done

- Use as little SMB as possible. 20 mgl is enough
- Sauregut is optional
- Mash at higher pH than normal ~5.6-5.8
- More protein means more work in the lower temperature ranges (~40 minutes extra). You can use the maltase mash (infusion), or just do the classic one where you step the proteolytic range 50,53,55 and then continue as you would otherwise. Decoctions are not necessary.
- Short mashes are a guarantee to have bad yield. To process the starches fully, you will need a mash that is at least 60 minutes longer than for lager
- Because it's unfiltered, the hops note is much stronger. Thus 12-14 IBU are plently
- You probably know all about fermentation from your ale days
- Speise. That's quintessential. Don't ferment the entire wort. Set some aside and use it as priming sugar when you BOTTLE the weizen.
- End of fermentation. Give it one day to settle. Then drop the temperature to 10C and come back next day. Add the speise.
- once mixed with speise, fill int bottle, cap, and then let it ferment at room temperature for a week, then at 10-14C to condition.
- Wait 5 weeks and enjoy


What is the normal amount to reserve for Speise? 10%? 20%

I'm looking into doing a proper Hefe for my annual Oktoberfest party, so I am following this thread keenly.
Also, why the high pH? Haze preservation? Mouthfeel/texture? Proteins?
Smellyglove
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Smellyglove » Wed May 17, 2017 4:18 pm

I'm kinda anxious to the spesise thing and bottles, because I've been striving very hard these past years to limit oxygen pickup. Currently im adding it to the keg when doing lagers, which will pick up very little oxygen comparing to filling a bottle with open mouth.

"How much", is "ok", in terms of oxygen pickup when adding speise? I've been pondering this while at work today, and is it ok to add the krausen to induvidual bottles, and just use a bottle wand to fill the bottles straight from the fermenter? No purging, open mouth of bottle, etc? Will the yeast consume all the oxygen?
bjanat
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby bjanat » Wed May 17, 2017 4:33 pm

Cavpilot2000 wrote:
Weizenberg wrote:Here is how it's done

- Use as little SMB as possible. 20 mgl is enough
- Sauregut is optional
- Mash at higher pH than normal ~5.6-5.8
- More protein means more work in the lower temperature ranges (~40 minutes extra). You can use the maltase mash (infusion), or just do the classic one where you step the proteolytic range 50,53,55 and then continue as you would otherwise. Decoctions are not necessary.
- Short mashes are a guarantee to have bad yield. To process the starches fully, you will need a mash that is at least 60 minutes longer than for lager
- Because it's unfiltered, the hops note is much stronger. Thus 12-14 IBU are plently
- You probably know all about fermentation from your ale days
- Speise. That's quintessential. Don't ferment the entire wort. Set some aside and use it as priming sugar when you BOTTLE the weizen.
- End of fermentation. Give it one day to settle. Then drop the temperature to 10C and come back next day. Add the speise.
- once mixed with speise, fill int bottle, cap, and then let it ferment at room temperature for a week, then at 10-14C to condition.
- Wait 5 weeks and enjoy


What is the normal amount to reserve for Speise? 10%? 20%?


https://www.brewersfriend.com/gyle-and- ... alculator/
Smellyglove
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:49 pm

Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Smellyglove » Wed May 17, 2017 4:42 pm

bjanat wrote:
Cavpilot2000 wrote:
Weizenberg wrote:Here is how it's done

- Use as little SMB as possible. 20 mgl is enough
- Sauregut is optional
- Mash at higher pH than normal ~5.6-5.8
- More protein means more work in the lower temperature ranges (~40 minutes extra). You can use the maltase mash (infusion), or just do the classic one where you step the proteolytic range 50,53,55 and then continue as you would otherwise. Decoctions are not necessary.
- Short mashes are a guarantee to have bad yield. To process the starches fully, you will need a mash that is at least 60 minutes longer than for lager
- Because it's unfiltered, the hops note is much stronger. Thus 12-14 IBU are plently
- You probably know all about fermentation from your ale days
- Speise. That's quintessential. Don't ferment the entire wort. Set some aside and use it as priming sugar when you BOTTLE the weizen.
- End of fermentation. Give it one day to settle. Then drop the temperature to 10C and come back next day. Add the speise.
- once mixed with speise, fill int bottle, cap, and then let it ferment at room temperature for a week, then at 10-14C to condition.
- Wait 5 weeks and enjoy


What is the normal amount to reserve for Speise? 10%? 20%?


https://www.brewersfriend.com/gyle-and- ... alculator/


I guess you can use this: https://www.brewersfriend.com/gyle-and- ... alculator/

But. I did some calculations there today. I've never been good at maths, but if speising 12L, or 0.5x 24 (which equals 12L) it calculated a volume of speise which was exactly the volume of 1x bottle less, when calculating for 12L, comparing to 24x0.5. There might be something I don't know about, but that the volume was exactly one bottle less, is strange.
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Weizenberg
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Weizenberg » Wed May 17, 2017 4:59 pm

Cavpilot2000 wrote:What is the normal amount to reserve for Speise? 10%? 20%

That depends on your wort concentration and the desired level of carbonation. You can download Oli's program, which has a calculator for this (it's free) http://www.brewrecipedeveloper.com -- it's more geared towards German brewmasters though, beware. There is a formula somewhere... I would have to dig it out when I've got the time.

Cavpilot2000 wrote:Also, why the high pH? Haze preservation? Mouthfeel/texture? Proteins?


proteins and favourable environment for ferulic acid... amongst others. Some adjust the pH after the proteolytic range, some do it on the boil stage, others never bother. you need to find what works for you but these variables are fun to try :)
The Quest for Edelstoff - http://edelstoffquest.wordpress.com
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Weizenberg
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Weizenberg » Wed May 17, 2017 5:01 pm

Smellyglove wrote:I'm kinda anxious to the spesise thing and bottles, because I've been striving very hard these past years to limit oxygen pickup. Currently im adding it to the keg when doing lagers, which will pick up very little oxygen comparing to filling a bottle with open mouth.

"How much", is "ok", in terms of oxygen pickup when adding speise? I've been pondering this while at work today, and is it ok to add the krausen to induvidual bottles, and just use a bottle wand to fill the bottles straight from the fermenter? No purging, open mouth of bottle, etc? Will the yeast consume all the oxygen?


You just add it. The yeast will take care of the oxygen pretty quickly, especially once new "food" is on the table.

Bottle conditioning is the best for beer. That includes lager BTW.
The Quest for Edelstoff - http://edelstoffquest.wordpress.com
Smellyglove
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Smellyglove » Wed May 17, 2017 5:24 pm

Weizenberg wrote:
Smellyglove wrote:I'm kinda anxious to the spesise thing and bottles, because I've been striving very hard these past years to limit oxygen pickup. Currently im adding it to the keg when doing lagers, which will pick up very little oxygen comparing to filling a bottle with open mouth.

"How much", is "ok", in terms of oxygen pickup when adding speise? I've been pondering this while at work today, and is it ok to add the krausen to induvidual bottles, and just use a bottle wand to fill the bottles straight from the fermenter? No purging, open mouth of bottle, etc? Will the yeast consume all the oxygen?


You just add it. The yeast will take care of the oxygen pretty quickly, especially once new "food" is on the table.

Bottle conditioning is the best for beer. That includes lager BTW.


I think that's debatable. A hoppy beer which has been kept in room temperature for a week or two, really ruins it for me. That delicate hoppy freshness is lost due to temperature. I'd rather brew something else if that was the only option for that batch. I've been brewing mostly hoppy stuff until I got bored and wanted to try something more challenging, and found this forum.

But thanks. I'll get a 100ml dosage-syringe and try to speise a hefe like that. It's supposed to have yeast in it. I don't like "trub" in the bottles, unless it's acceptable, like a hefe ( it just doesn't look very good imo) so the lagers will still recieve speise in the keg (mostly for fun I guess, for now at least), overcarb them and use a CPF to get them into the final bottles.
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Weizenberg
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Weizenberg » Wed May 17, 2017 5:59 pm

Of course, how you 'cook' your own is up to you. Take good note of the rest phase in the fermenter and then that temperature drop (in total that's 2 days at end of fermentation). Letting it drop properly will reduce the amount of yeast you carry over into the bottle.
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Smellyglove
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Smellyglove » Wed May 17, 2017 6:07 pm

Weizenberg wrote:Of course, how you 'cook' your own is up to you. Take good note of the rest phase in the fermenter and then that temperature drop (in total that's 2 days at end of fermentation). Letting it drop properly will reduce the amount of yeast you carry over into the bottle.


I did that this time. Waited two days after FG was stable and turned it down to 10C, for two days, then kegged. I waited two days just to make sure I it wouldn't toss out any sulphur at that point. Btw. I just took another sample. It's pretty much fine. I guess my palate must have been off for some reason, tired because of long work days or whatever. It's pretty much fine., but a tad less than just after force carbing it. But it's as always with the hefes I do with 380. They taste best at day five, but that's way to early to take them at that point.

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