Dopplebock

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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Dopplebock

Postby Ancient Abbey » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:33 pm

I would trust the flavors of the malts and do nothing to interfere with them. Hippocratic oath ;)

The 63/72/75 mash works great, no decoctions and a 60 min boil.
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Bryan R
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Re: Dopplebock

Postby Bryan R » Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:35 am

Ancient Abbey wrote:I've found clean flavor peaks work better than complex layering, and from what I read, Ayinger believes the same.



Care to expound on this, moreso the ayinger.
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Re: Dopplebock

Postby bjanat » Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:42 am

Ancient Abbey wrote:I would trust the flavors of the malts and do nothing to interfere with them. Hippocratic oath ;)

The 63/72/75 mash works great, no decoctions and a 60 min boil.

I also noticed a much lower toastiness on the second one. The first was boiled on a stovetop, and the second one in a Speidel. I wonder if the stove had a higher temperature, and allowed for spot caramelization. Maybe there is a bigger difference between induction plate and gas burner. Anyone noticed a difference in this aspect switching between the two?

I know Norwegian traditional beer is often boiled for four hours in a copper kettle over wood fire, and it gets dark even with just pale malt.


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Bryan R
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Re: Dopplebock

Postby Bryan R » Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:56 am

A soft boil absolutly preserves much more of the worts flavors.
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Re: Dopplebock

Postby bjanat » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:07 am

That makes sense, but Charlie Bamforth said it is crucial to have a full, vigorous boil in order to get better flavor stability. But then again, if you look at the part about wort boiling here, engineering advances to save energy and avoid heat stress, it seems to be in line what you guys have been saying. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10 ... 9a38604f48


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Bryan R
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Dopplebock

Postby Bryan R » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:35 am

Quickly pulled some excerpts out from Kunze
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bjanat
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Re: Dopplebock

Postby bjanat » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:37 am

There should be a like button on this forum.


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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Dopplebock

Postby Ancient Abbey » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:26 am

Bryan R wrote:Care to expound on this, moreso the ayinger.

The way I think of it, its like a graph you get from a gas chromatograph. If there are many compounds in the system at lower concentrations, you get a lot of small peaks, and overall it just looks indistinct. If you have few compounds, but have higher concentrations of them, then you'll get clean, tall peaks on the graph.

Based on the same principles, and supported by flavor thresholds, my theory is that a higher percentage of a single malt will produced a clean, more pronounced flavor that layering several malts of similar kilning or color. For example, 5% C100 will come through much cleaner than 2.5% of C75 & C125. The basic idea is to use only one base, one braumalt, one karamalt and one rostmalt in a recipe. I've been developing my recipe accordingly since last April or May, and I'm really happy with how the flavors stand out and compliment the other intention 'peak'. There are exceptions of course, e.g., stouts, dopplebocks, barleywine, etc.

Tech sent me a link a while back where Jeff Rankert toured Ayinger and they told him they only stock 5 malts: Pilsner, Wheat, Munich, Caramunich II and Carafa II. Seems consistent with my line of thinking.
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Re: Dopplebock

Postby Bryan R » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:37 am

Heh. Yea I sent that link to tech iirc.. I have been emailing them back and forth.

This is exactly why I don't use muma or vima in my base malt blend, muddy!
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Re: Dopplebock

Postby Ancient Abbey » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:45 am

Depends on what which malt you get and what you like. I get clean, croissant and crescent roll flavors from Best vima, but Avangard doesn't have near the color nor character. You can buy vima that is only 5-6 EBC, and you can also find pale ale malt that is 7-9 EBC. Understanding your target base malt or base blend and confirmation with malt analysis sheets is more important that blanket statements.
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