Narziss' advice on Marzen

[Owenbräu]

Sounds like Noonan was also making the argument that with a decoction brew, more of the hot break has already been removed and left behind in the mash tun, so there will be less hop loss due to precipitating with hot break. Maybe FWH is a better fit for decoction brewing and not advantageous for infusion mashing. Still, it sounds like the surfactant theory would also result in more break material remaining in the wort, which is contrary to German brewing practices. Interesting...

I've hear podcasts where some try to make an argument that somehow the cooler temps of FWH makes the flavors meld before boiling in an undefined series of reactions, resulting in a smoother and rounder bitterness. What we know is that the measured IBU level will always be higher with FWH than when you add hops after the hot break, so clearly the AA compounds that are isomerized are not lost due to precipitation with the hot break. However, there are polyphenols and hop compounds that do precipitate out with the hot break.

My take on it has been that the loss of those specific polyphenols is what makes the hop bitterness smoother, kinda like the difference in bitterness between a 40 IBU beer made with only 75-90 min additions and a 40 IBU beer made with only 15 min or whirlpool hop additions. Same measured IBU, different amount of hops required to achieve that IBU and consequently two completely different tasting beers. Basically, its the absence of harsher polyphenols (less muddled hop character) due to their precipitation with the hot break that gives the FWH a smoother bitterness, despite having higher IBU. Thoughts?

[lhommedieu]

[Weizenberg]

6 months? Did you keep your yeast active that long?

[lhommedieu]

I primed with speise and would check every month or so; the prv emitted gas when toggled. I did find however that the carbonation was lacking, so I ended up carbonating with gas towards the end. Whether or not the issue was the amount yeast or fermentable sugar left in suspension, I don't know. The next time that I make beer, I'm going to keg when the residual sugar is between 3-4% and move the keg from time to time.

[Owenbräu]

[Bryan R]

You have to take into account the ramps as well (1c/min). With the dough ins you are still often in ranges for more than a few minutes allowing for conversion help . However on this beer I did rest for 10 at 55.

[Owenbräu]

Sorry, I thought this was a decoction schedule.

[Bryan R]

[Owenbräu]

Are you saying you gradually add the decoction back to simulate a ramp? I usually dump the decoction and the temp raises very quickly. I thought that was the premise of decoction and hot water infusions, there is no ramp time.

[Bryan R]

Oh, you can add the whole decoction back. But I am speaking more like anything being direct firing, or ramping decoctions to boil etc.