Sauregut

Discuss malts, hops, and yeast, not related to a specific recipe

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Bilsch
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Re: Sauregut

Postby Bilsch » Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:20 pm

The three jars fit perfectly in my ghetto crockpot/souring reactor. This was then sealed up and set to 49c where it will sit for 48 hours. I will report back with the details of the completed run in a couple days.
Cheers.
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Bryan R
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Re: Sauregut

Postby Bryan R » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:56 am

Looking good! Thanks for sharing.
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Weizenberg
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Re: Sauregut

Postby Weizenberg » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:17 am

Love it!

Sauergut has many benefits.

  • Cheaper than technical (mineral) acid
  • Nutrients for the yeast (zinc, biotin)
  • Additional Redox potential
  • Better flocculation
  • More intense fermentation
  • Increase of colloidal and sensorial stability (and foam)

(Source: Hefebank Weihenstephan)

I'd be surprised if you don't notice a difference. According to their data, it's best used in conjunction with a mash-pH of 5.4. Apparently it can help reduce mash times since the conversion intensifies.

Great work!
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Bilsch
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Re: Sauregut

Postby Bilsch » Tue May 10, 2016 10:06 pm

So far I have done three batches of beer using my homebrew sauergut for acidification of the mash and boil. Today though, working on a brown ale the mash pH came in lower then predicted (5.38) so I did not need to adjust the pH. I bring this up because this no sauergut batch had a drastic difference in the amount, timing and appearance of the protein break. In the batches where I used sauergut, the break began early, the pieces were very large and dense and the amount, granted only a visual estimation, was less. I've had many egg drop type breaks in the past but nothing like what happens with SG. I do not think the actual kettle pH was a factor because on the previous batches the near end boil pH was a similar 5.1 as today. Very interesting subject this biological acidification.

In this not so great picture the trub chunk there was on the order of 1/2" also with some egg drop type strings.
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bjanat
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Re: Sauregut

Postby bjanat » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:26 am

Ancient Abbey pointed me to this, interesting stuff, I'll definitely try it. When it comes to grains as bacteria source, though, it seems you can fewer unwanted microbes by using probiotic capsules, preferrably lactobacillus plantarum, which works well even when dropping to room temp. I've tried both when kettle souring, and prefer probiotics. Pre-acidifying to 4.5 help keeping nasty things out also. http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Alterna ... ia_Sources
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Lactobacillus


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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Sauregut

Postby Ancient Abbey » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:57 am

I like the idea of using sauermalt initially, as it both provides fermentable sugars and drops the pH initially without the use of mineral lacto. Once you have a reactor going, then this is likely a moot point, but makes for easy work to get it going.
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Bryan R
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Re: Sauregut

Postby Bryan R » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:59 am

Ancient Abbey wrote:I like the idea of using sauermalt initially, as it both provides fermentable sugars and drops the pH initially without the use of mineral lacto. Once you have a reactor going, then this is likely a moot point, but makes for easy work to get it going.


Sauermalt goes though a curing process, and most likely kills all the live cultures. Pima malt is going to do the same thing.
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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Sauregut

Postby Ancient Abbey » Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:11 am

Lactobacillus can achieve a dormant state through desiccation, which makes it more tolerant to heat stress. It easily survives the kilning and drying process of pima colored malts, though I am sure some of the cells will die in the process. The risk of course is that lacto isn't the only bug living on the malt that will survive desiccation. There will also be some spore forming bugs and brett as well. Given the concentration of lacto due to malt being sprayed with sauergut, it will have a great competitive advantage starting out, which is the result Bilsch (and Roachbrau) saw with his crock-pot method.
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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Sauregut

Postby Ancient Abbey » Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:20 am

bjanat wrote:Ancient Abbey pointed me to this, interesting stuff, I'll definitely try it. When it comes to grains as bacteria source, though, it seems you can fewer unwanted microbes by using probiotic capsules, preferrably lactobacillus plantarum, which works well even when dropping to room temp. I've tried both when kettle souring, and prefer probiotics. Pre-acidifying to 4.5 help keeping nasty things out also. http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Alterna ... ia_Sources
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Lactobacillus

Check out this one too:
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=35
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Weizenberg
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Re: Sauregut

Postby Weizenberg » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:32 pm

There is no uniform method for how the pH is used during the process.

The Bavarian method is to mash relatively high with a pH around 5.5 and keep it at that value in the boil until break formation. Then brewmaster treat it differently as well. Some adjust to 5.2 immediately after the break to encourage an even brighter end product, some do it 10-15 minutes before the end.

In Germany there is a trend of mashing much lower, some as low as 5.2, with a minimal dose in the boil.

These all are a matter of preference and style.

In the end they all end up with wort at 5.1-5.2 hitting the fermenter and all use Sauergut. It is "de rigeur"
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