Sauregut

Discuss malts, hops, and yeast, not related to a specific recipe

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Bryan R
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Re: Sauregut

Postby Bryan R » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:26 pm

I have some real world test data on redox. I haven't put it all together yet. Working on it.
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Ancient Abbey
German Brewing
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Re: Sauregut

Postby Ancient Abbey » Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:33 am

zwiller wrote:Just so we're clear, I am referring to using acid malt to grow up sauergut. Or is not a good idea?


Bilsch is correct, they will all work. The main advantages as I see it to using sauermalt is that you do not need to use mineral lacto to initially drop the pH and you get some of the SG profile from the mother liquid from a German maltster, which will get you to a "house" character a few generations faster than starting with regular malt. This is all moot of course if you are feeding a rector.
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bjanat
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Re: Sauregut

Postby bjanat » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:01 am

One question, what about adding yeast to the sauergut, and doughing in at 35C with some sugar? If this dough-in is done with 1:2 malt-water, left for five minutes, and then add near boiling water with SMB to reach full no sparge volume at 60C, you could have O2-scavenging with less SMB?

Wouldn't the yeast help significantly here?


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Bilsch
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Re: Sauregut

Postby Bilsch » Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:39 pm

Three days ago I started another sauergut test. This time the goal was to see if I could improve the quality by inoculating the new batch with previously made SG as opposed to using grains as the culture starter.
The process began with making a ~1gal wort with 2-row and acid malt for a mash pH of ~5.2 similar to previous runs however this time I employed low oxygen mashing by pre-boiling the water and adding 25mg/l NaMeta. Another difference was no boiling and simply drained grain off the wort at 77c, cooled to 47 and split into 1 qt canning jars. I then inoculated each jar with 150ml sauergut which brought the pH in each jar down to 4.45. I then topped off to almost zero headspace, and put in a water bath at 48c for 60 hours.
This morning I pulled out the jars and opened one to see how things proceeded and the pH was about 4.4, very strange. And so I went to do some research on sulfites and lactobacillus and it seems that takes as little as 1.5mg/l SO2 to discourage many strains from reproducing.
I'm wondering if LO oxygen wort, containing any free SO2, is a bad thing for making sauergut?
TheHairyHop
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Re: Sauregut

Postby TheHairyHop » Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:47 pm

if the SMB is what suppressed the bacteria, then it sounds like a great way to prevent starters from getting infected
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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Sauregut

Postby Ancient Abbey » Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:47 pm

I think so. It's my understanding bacteria are much more sensitive than yeast.
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Bilsch
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Re: Sauregut

Postby Bilsch » Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:08 pm

If memory serves from other threads at this forum, aren't people are seeing ~20mg/l remaining sulfites in their boiled wort? If one uses this to feed a reactor might it not complicate the SG making process?
Question is.. does using hido wort result in a lower quality of SG.
Last edited by Bilsch on Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Sauregut

Postby Ancient Abbey » Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:36 pm

Right. That's why I was speculating on using citric or ascorbic acid in SG. Seems it would provide some scavenging protection while also serving to lower pH. I think you are the perfect guy to start testing this ;)
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lupulus
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Re: Sauregut

Postby lupulus » Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:07 pm

Does any of you have strains of lactobacillus amylolyticus or amylovorus?
These are the ones most German breweries use to make consistent Sauergut. Most use a combo of both.
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bjanat
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Re: Sauregut

Postby bjanat » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:58 pm

Ancient Abbey wrote:Right. That's why I was speculating on using citric or ascorbic acid in SG. Seems it would provide some scavenging protection while also serving to lower pH. I think you are the perfect guy to start testing this ;)

I did one just now, with a vitamin C-tablet after dough-in and when adding to the jar, 225mg each og AA for 500ml. But didnt measure anything else, too getto to learn much from it.


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