Let's talk Pils malts

Discuss malts, hops, and yeast, not related to a specific recipe

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Brandon
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Re: Let's talk Pils malts

Postby Brandon » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:51 pm

ajk wrote:Reviving an old thread—I joined this forum months ago but am just now getting time to read.

My favorite is Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner (not floor-malted) although lately I've started to think it's almost too rich. That happens after I've used a malt for a while—I get bored with it and want something more refined. It's why I don't currently use Maris Otter in my British ales.

Also, when I toured Weyermann, the guide said they hardly sell any of their Pilsner malt domestically—it all goes to American craft breweries and homebrewers. :o


That said, I've seen Weyermann specialty malt in use in Germany (Bayerischer Bahnhof) and the specially configured trucks for the custom batches are staying local. Weyermann is a tiny maltster in the grand scheme of malting companies. When did you tour Weyermann? I was there in 2012. Bamberg is AWESOME!
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Re: Let's talk Pils malts

Postby ajk » Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:38 am

brandon-g wrote:
ajk wrote:Reviving an old thread—I joined this forum months ago but am just now getting time to read.

My favorite is Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner (not floor-malted) although lately I've started to think it's almost too rich. That happens after I've used a malt for a while—I get bored with it and want something more refined. It's why I don't currently use Maris Otter in my British ales.

Also, when I toured Weyermann, the guide said they hardly sell any of their Pilsner malt domestically—it all goes to American craft breweries and homebrewers. :o


That said, I've seen Weyermann specialty malt in use in Germany (Bayerischer Bahnhof) and the specially configured trucks for the custom batches are staying local. Weyermann is a tiny maltster in the grand scheme of malting companies. When did you tour Weyermann? I was there in 2012. Bamberg is AWESOME!

July 2013, and I've been plotting my return petty much every moment since! Bamberg was definitely the highlight of the trip (although I'd love to get back to Munich, too). We visited Schlenkerla (the restaurant and the brewery—sipped Rauchbier directly from the lagering tanks), Spezial (the tap room and the Keller), and a cool bar called Cafe Abseits. Somewhere in there we trekked over to Forccheim for the last day of Annafest and drank many liters of Kellerbier.
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Re: Let's talk Pils malts

Postby Bryan R » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:06 am

I often wonder about, the malt we get. Nice find!
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Re: Let's talk Pils malts

Postby Weizenberg » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:11 am

I always have more than one Pilsener malt in play ;) Makes it easier to adjust. Even Narziss recommends to blend the base malts to compensate for variations in quality from various suppliers. I've never heard of rejected malt being used, but maybe that got lost in translation when people mentioned this on FB?

Crisp Flagon (also known as Extra Pale Malt)
Crisp Europils (slightly under modified)
Schill Pilsener
Best Pilsener
Best Heidelberger
Dingemans Pilsener

are all worth looking into.
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Re: Let's talk Pils malts

Postby Bryan R » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:25 am

Trying to blend and get a Kolbach, SNR, and EBC you want with the beer you are producing ?
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Re: Let's talk Pils malts

Postby Brody » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:08 pm

ajk wrote:Reviving an old thread—I joined this forum months ago but am just now getting time to read.

My favorite is Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner (not floor-malted) although lately I've started to think it's almost too rich. That happens after I've used a malt for a while—I get bored with it and want something more refined. It's why I don't currently use Maris Otter in my British ales.

Also, when I toured Weyermann, the guide said they hardly sell any of their Pilsner malt domestically—it all goes to American craft breweries and homebrewers. :o


I remember hearing Kai say something along the lines of Weyerman is expensive so most German breweries don't use them. No idea if that's still accurate but interesting stuff.
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Re: Let's talk Pils malts

Postby Bryan R » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:36 pm

Yea the problem is there is like ~400 malsters in europe alone. Weyermann is in the specialty malt business.
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Re: Let's talk Pils malts

Postby Roachbrau » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:41 pm

We haven't been around long enough to have old threads, everything is fair game :lol:

I stick with my earlier comments, after half a dozen or so batches brewed with Weyermann malts. Bohemian Pilsner = good, Floor Malted = weird. It has it's place, but not in my beer haha
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Re: Let's talk Pils malts

Postby Weizenberg » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:47 pm

Bryan R wrote:Trying to blend and get a Kolbach, SNR, and EBC you want with the beer you are producing ?


It doesn't need to be as technical as hitting all three variables.

Once a good base mixture is achieved, then colour rating gives a good indication. Most of these malts are made to be stored long term and thus well modified. One can always dough in a tick below when in doubt. It won't matter too much.

What's more important is to appreciate that most mashes are way too short in order to produce the desired amount of structure to the beer. The complexity is multi-fold but the main aim should be to have an extraction rate in the range of 72-77%. I think beer smith and similar tools would report this as north of 92% (OBY)

Wheat beer is worse. The schedule needs to be extended considerably when not using mechanical means (boiling) to release enough starches. It's probably the hardest German style to get right, but also the most rewarding and creative.

Then there is structure. A 100% Pima grist from a single supplier will probably not turn out too well unless it is handled correctly. The floor malted stuff is not really that suited for infusions, but I always had good results decocting it. But then, there are a lot of other variables at play.... I just found it too expensive and could achieve very good results by other means.

For e.g. The Schill Pima is 60% cheaper for me than the Wey Bopima Floor. That's quite a consideration.

The point I'm trying to make is that the base malts available to home brewers are not really the same as many of your favourite German brands are using since many make their own or have it made under contract to their spec. Thus doesn't mean it's impossible to make a decent brew with those malts, but the grain bill may need a little re-think (as well as the mash schedule) to what they are reporting.

On the other hand many of the big breweries are quite happy to outsource the speciality malts to Wey and best for e.g. I must say that the Caramalts from Bestmalz are truly outstanding. This stuff ends up at the Augustiner Brewery too!

It's all about the base malts though, and that's the biggest headache for the home Brewer apart from getting the water right. I often found that a dash of Crisp Flagon malt does help steering towards the results I have in mind. And that's a British malt!

It takes years to get a feel for it.
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