Brewtan

Discuss malts, hops, and yeast, not related to a specific recipe

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Weizenberg
German Brewing
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Re: Brewtan

Postby Weizenberg » Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:13 pm

I'm not tempted.
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Futur
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Re: Brewtan

Postby Futur » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:48 am

I had some interesting findings today during two back to back lodo batches. I have a single vessel BIAB RIMS system with a stainless floating mash cap which I've recently built as I've ditched my grainfather.

Using the dextrose and yeast method for oxygen scavenging I got my strike water down to 0.2ppm before adding a 60mg/L dose of SMB and brewtan B.

For the first time I went to the effort to measure my mash O2 levels and they were not good. Try 2.5ppm straight after dough in, this is on the first batch and didn't increase during the entire mash. I had a slight leak on one of my lines which I thought was the culprit, so I tightened up my system and went again for another batch.

Long story short, I got the same results, low strike water readings then high readings which didn't change throughout the mash. I took the utmost care when doughing in both brews.

After some thought and seeing others having such low DO readings during the mash, I isolated the only difference to be the brewtan b and came up with an experiment to prove it.

I had two jars filled with standard tap water half full (250mL/1cup). I then added 0.1g of SMB to both, then added 0.1g Brewtan to only one jar. Then I filled the jars up to the brim with the remaining tap water (another 250mL/1cup). In addition, I continued to add more SMB to jar 1 to see what the effect would be. I waited about a minute between each addition to let the reactions take place. See the results below.

Jar1
250 mL Tap water only 4.44 ppm
0.1 g SMB 0.20 ppm
0.1 g Brewtan B 0.5ppm
Another 250 mL tap water 2.5 ppm
Another 0.1 g SMB 2.58 ppm
Another 0.5 g SMB 1.32 ppm

Jar 2
250 mL Tap water only 4.50 ppm
0.1 g SMB 0.22 ppm
Measurement when brewtan B added for Jar 1 0.22 ppm
Another 250 mL tap water 0.29 ppm
Measurement when another 0.1 g SMB added for Jar 1 0.3 ppm
Measurement when another 0.5 g SMB added for Jar 1 0.36 ppm

If you can make sense of these results you'll see brewtan b seems to block the effect of SMB when it comes to oxygen scavenging. Either that or brewtan B messes with the DO600 meter somehow. I ran through this experiment twice to ensure it wasn't just a mistake but it was repeatable.

I'm not sure what to think of this right now, but I think for all future batches I'll be keeping brewtan out of my mash and sticking to only SMB for lodo beers.

Cheers!
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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Brewtan

Postby Ancient Abbey » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:35 am

What is the proposed mechanism of action for blocking SMB?
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Techbrau
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Re: Brewtan

Postby Techbrau » Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:26 am

Hmm, that's a very interesting idea. I am starting to experiment with 30 mg/l SMB + 30 mg/l BB in my water and so far I haven't taken any DO readings, but anecdotally the wort was just as bright and full flavored (maybe the flavor was even a hair better) as the rest of my LoDO batches that used SMB only.
If you always do what you've always done, then you'll always get what you've always gotten.
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Ancient Abbey
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Brewtan

Postby Ancient Abbey » Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:32 am

I mostly see differences in clarity and stability of the final product. Flavor has been excellent with and without BB. I'm curious as to what could cause a link between BB and increased DO levels. Air trapped in the powder? It is a PITA to mix and dissolves thoroughly.


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Bryan R
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Re: Brewtan

Postby Bryan R » Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:26 am

I have seen a positive impact from using gallontannins, and I will go so far as saying they MUST be used in conjunction when any AA is used. If you are seeing an improvement( as I did) that would suggest fenton reactions from some part of your process. I am all SS and RO, and brilliantly clear wort and still saw it in the kettle alone.


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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Brewtan

Postby Ancient Abbey » Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:02 pm

Bryan R wrote:I tested Brewtan years ago when it used to be Tanal-b, I saw zero impact or benefit to my style of brewing, and deemed it a lame duck. Tanal-a on the other hand is a great product to keep wheat beers turbid, I have used it with much success. It pays to have a commercial account and go right though wyeast


What changed?


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Big Monk
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Re: Brewtan

Postby Big Monk » Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:30 pm

Techbrau wrote:Hmm, that's a very interesting idea. I am starting to experiment with 30 mg/l SMB + 30 mg/l BB in my water and so far I haven't taken any DO readings, but anecdotally the wort was just as bright and full flavored (maybe the flavor was even a hair better) as the rest of my LoDO batches that used SMB only.


Might be worth pursuing a DIY version of Antioxin SBT.

45/45/10% of Meta/AA/BTB.

0.25 g/gal gives 30 ppm Meta.
Check us out at lowoxygenbrewing.com
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Ancient Abbey
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Brewtan

Postby Ancient Abbey » Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:38 pm

I've found it beneficial to alter the ratio of the trifecta depending on whether you are making an ale or lager.


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Big Monk
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Re: Brewtan

Postby Big Monk » Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:35 pm

Ancient Abbey wrote:I've found it beneficial to alter the ratio of the trifecta depending on whether you are making an ale or lager.


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So you're looking for more or less Meta? That makes sense that you would alter it then.

0.37 g/gal is the supplier recommendation and gives 50 ppm Meta if I remember correctly. You have to watch the Dose with Antioxin because of the Potassium though.
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