LODO Sodium Metabisulfite Dosage Spreadsheet

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Brew4Fun
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Re: LODO Sodium Metabisulfite Dosage Spreadsheet

Postby Brew4Fun » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:02 pm

Brandon wrote:
Feurhund wrote:If you no sparge, do you use the Mash water dosage for the whole mash volume?

I could no sparge with my setup, but haven't before, so will have to accept the variable efficiency and guess.


I've been doing a dosage for the entire mash volume....so ~4gm powdered SMB (whatever mcrispin's chart says).


I'm intrigued by this as well, unless it's a totally moot point because of the boil driving away 100% of the MB (of SMB) simply leaving the Na behind. I don't think it's this simplistic, but maybe it is?

Say for instance I do a sparge process that calls for 1.5g for strike water (100 mg/l rate) and 0.3g for sparge water (~20mg/l rate) for a total of 1800mg SMB. Then I decide to brew the same recipe as a no sparge process using 100% of my water in the mash, it would then call for 3450mg of SMB (100mg/l rate) in the "strike" water. A difference of 1600+mg of SMB simply due to the process difference, and that difference seems so large (basically double the "sparge" process amount).

I guess what I'm driving at is, perhaps a "no sparge, full water" process doesn't need the same 100 mg/l level as the "standard"? Or does it? I just thinking out loud here.
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Re: LODO Sodium Metabisulfite Dosage Spreadsheet

Postby Brandon » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:08 pm

Brew4Fun wrote:
Brandon wrote:
Feurhund wrote:If you no sparge, do you use the Mash water dosage for the whole mash volume?

I could no sparge with my setup, but haven't before, so will have to accept the variable efficiency and guess.


I've been doing a dosage for the entire mash volume....so ~4gm powdered SMB (whatever mcrispin's chart says).


I'm intrigued by this as well, unless it's a totally moot point because of the boil driving away 100% of the MB (of SMB) simply leaving the Na behind. I don't think it's this simplistic, but maybe it is?

Say for instance I do a sparge process that calls for 1.5g for strike water (100 mg/l rate) and 0.3g for sparge water (~20mg/l rate) for a total of 1800mg SMB. Then I decide to brew the same recipe as a no sparge process using 100% of my water in the mash, it would then call for 3450mg of SMB (100mg/l rate) in the "strike" water. A difference of 1600+mg of SMB simply due to the process difference, and that difference seems so large (basically double the "sparge" process amount).

I guess what I'm driving at is, perhaps a "no sparge, full water" process doesn't need the same 100 mg/l level as the "standard"? Or does it? I just thinking out loud here.


I doubt it does (this is going to be system/process dependent as well) and am reducing the amount of SMB I use as I tighten up my system. Going no sparge simplified O2 management, but my ultimate goal is to get back to brewing 10 gallon batches of Helles and Pilsner, so I will need to address this once 5gallon batches are optimized.
Brew4Fun
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Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 8:02 pm

Re: LODO Sodium Metabisulfite Dosage Spreadsheet

Postby Brew4Fun » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:04 pm

Brandon wrote:
Brew4Fun wrote:
Brandon wrote:
I've been doing a dosage for the entire mash volume....so ~4gm powdered SMB (whatever mcrispin's chart says).


I'm intrigued by this as well, unless it's a totally moot point because of the boil driving away 100% of the MB (of SMB) simply leaving the Na behind. I don't think it's this simplistic, but maybe it is?

Say for instance I do a sparge process that calls for 1.5g for strike water (100 mg/l rate) and 0.3g for sparge water (~20mg/l rate) for a total of 1800mg SMB. Then I decide to brew the same recipe as a no sparge process using 100% of my water in the mash, it would then call for 3450mg of SMB (100mg/l rate) in the "strike" water. A difference of 1600+mg of SMB simply due to the process difference, and that difference seems so large (basically double the "sparge" process amount).

I guess what I'm driving at is, perhaps a "no sparge, full water" process doesn't need the same 100 mg/l level as the "standard"? Or does it? I just thinking out loud here.


I doubt it does (this is going to be system/process dependent as well) and am reducing the amount of SMB I use as I tighten up my system. Going no sparge simplified O2 management, but my ultimate goal is to get back to brewing 10 gallon batches of Helles and Pilsner, so I will need to address this once 5gallon batches are optimized.


That sounds very reasonable, and personalized. What would you say is the aim for residual SMB amounts going into the fermenter? Is zero sulfites postboil the aim? Or, more in the 10-25ppm range to provide a small amount of insurance?

Also, where are folks buying those sulfite test strips I see in the pictures? Because it sounds like I should have a better handle on ppm's of SMB at various points throughout the process.
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Re: LODO Sodium Metabisulfite Dosage Spreadsheet

Postby Brandon » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:11 pm

Brew4Fun wrote:
Brandon wrote:
Brew4Fun wrote:
I'm intrigued by this as well, unless it's a totally moot point because of the boil driving away 100% of the MB (of SMB) simply leaving the Na behind. I don't think it's this simplistic, but maybe it is?

Say for instance I do a sparge process that calls for 1.5g for strike water (100 mg/l rate) and 0.3g for sparge water (~20mg/l rate) for a total of 1800mg SMB. Then I decide to brew the same recipe as a no sparge process using 100% of my water in the mash, it would then call for 3450mg of SMB (100mg/l rate) in the "strike" water. A difference of 1600+mg of SMB simply due to the process difference, and that difference seems so large (basically double the "sparge" process amount).

I guess what I'm driving at is, perhaps a "no sparge, full water" process doesn't need the same 100 mg/l level as the "standard"? Or does it? I just thinking out loud here.


I doubt it does (this is going to be system/process dependent as well) and am reducing the amount of SMB I use as I tighten up my system. Going no sparge simplified O2 management, but my ultimate goal is to get back to brewing 10 gallon batches of Helles and Pilsner, so I will need to address this once 5gallon batches are optimized.


That sounds very reasonable, and personalized. What would you say is the aim for residual SMB amounts going into the fermenter? Is zero sulfites postboil the aim? Or, more in the 10-25ppm range to provide a small amount of insurance?

Also, where are folks buying those sulfite test strips I see in the pictures? Because it sounds like I should have a better handle on ppm's of SMB at various points throughout the process.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0089 ... UTF8&psc=1

Regarding the amount left post-boil, I haven't done any tests. I've been working on lowering boil intensity and evaporation rate but focusing on beer flavor not sulfite. (but I should be testing as I go). Ancient Abbey might have more info, he's done more sulfite testing at various stages.
Brew4Fun
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Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 8:02 pm

Re: LODO Sodium Metabisulfite Dosage Spreadsheet

Postby Brew4Fun » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:38 pm

Brandon wrote:
Brew4Fun wrote:
Brandon wrote:
I doubt it does (this is going to be system/process dependent as well) and am reducing the amount of SMB I use as I tighten up my system. Going no sparge simplified O2 management, but my ultimate goal is to get back to brewing 10 gallon batches of Helles and Pilsner, so I will need to address this once 5gallon batches are optimized.


That sounds very reasonable, and personalized. What would you say is the aim for residual SMB amounts going into the fermenter? Is zero sulfites postboil the aim? Or, more in the 10-25ppm range to provide a small amount of insurance?

Also, where are folks buying those sulfite test strips I see in the pictures? Because it sounds like I should have a better handle on ppm's of SMB at various points throughout the process.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0089 ... UTF8&psc=1

Regarding the amount left post-boil, I haven't done any tests. I've been working on lowering boil intensity and evaporation rate but focusing on beer flavor not sulfite. (but I should be testing as I go). Ancient Abbey might have more info, he's done more sulfite testing at various stages.


Thanks for the feedback. Those buggers aren't the cheapest things :D . Oh well, I'm sure I'll splurge for them one day soon.
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Big Monk
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Re: LODO Sodium Metabisulfite Dosage Spreadsheet

Postby Big Monk » Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:18 am

Here is a link to a down and dirty NaMeta dosage calculator:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8F3C ... 2xjbXZoaU0

This calculation is also in the water section of the Low O2 spreadsheet as well.
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Re: LODO Sodium Metabisulfite Dosage Spreadsheet

Postby mchrispen » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:01 pm

Did some research on BrewTan B (BTB) and added a dosage calculator to the spreadsheet. Also added a custom sheet to calculate a targeted PPM for SMB - just set your desired PPM and the tables update. The other sheets have no changes. For the BTB, there are two recommended dosages - one for mash and one for boil in the whirlpool, based on finished beer volume. The recommendations differ slightly between mash and boil, and ranges (indicated in the comment) can be set independently. You can change your batch size as well.

Spreadsheet was done in Excel (Office 365). I have not done any testing on any other platform.

MBS Reference Sheet V3.xlsx
Excel for Office 365
(76.71 KiB) Downloaded 72 times
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Big Monk
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LODO Sodium Metabisulfite Dosage Spreadsheet

Postby Big Monk » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:24 pm

Have you thought about just making a calculator sheet as your main and having the tables as separate printable sheets?

Once you start doing calcs the tables seem to be reference only. A calculation sheet with basic user inputs would be more user friendly and intuitive.
“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit.” Aristotle

"Messieurs, c’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot." Louis Pasteur

Check us out at www.lowoxygenbrewing.com
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Re: LODO Sodium Metabisulfite Dosage Spreadsheet

Postby mchrispen » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:45 pm

Agreed, just haven't put in the time. Hope to talk to Martin about integrating SMB and BTB tables into Brun Water as an add on.


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Big Monk
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Re: LODO Sodium Metabisulfite Dosage Spreadsheet

Postby Big Monk » Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:01 pm

mchrispen wrote:Agreed, just haven't put in the time. Hope to talk to Martin about integrating SMB and BTB tables into Brun Water as an add on.


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I'll send you some calcs with a nice user interface in excel for your sheet.

All you need to do is account for Na, SO4 and pH contributions in water software. Martin should be able to make quick work of that.
“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit.” Aristotle

"Messieurs, c’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot." Louis Pasteur

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