Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Infusion, Decoction, Step, etc

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bensonledbetter
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Re: RE: Re: Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Postby bensonledbetter » Wed May 25, 2016 5:14 pm

jddevinn wrote:I've been transferring to "brite" tanks (kegs modified with CO2 stones) using a closed transfer to "purged" (filled with sanitizer and then emptied with a CO2 push) for a while. After the beer is carbonated I then closed transfer to another "purged" keg for serving. This allows sediment to drop out twice and I get perfectly clear beer, the keg can be moved and the beer is still clear.

I'm looking to implement the low oxygen brewing and believe I can make all the hot side adjustments fairly easily. However, I do not want to get rid of by "brite" tank procedure and move to a spudding setup. I know that even "purging" the kegs as I do leaves quite a bit of oxygen in the lid of the corny due to the physical design of the kegs.

My question here is has anyone used a combination steam/inert gas process for purging kegs such as what commercial keg cleaners use? I'm thinking of a steam source such as what Yuri_Rage http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=27070&highlight=steam used back in the day for steam infusion mashing (god that O2 uptake must be crazy!!! :cry: ) as a sanitizer and to push the air out of the keg, then slight (1psi or so) CO2 pressure to prevent a vacuum from forming when the steam condenses.

Apparently AJ Delange uses steam on his kegs.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=7564985

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=7565228
Bryan R
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Re: Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Postby Bryan R » Wed May 25, 2016 5:20 pm

Techbrau wrote:It might be possible for you to do a steam purge on your final serving keg and get super low oxygen levels. It's worth looking into.

I would suggest moving to spunding to carbonate though. The food grade CO2 you're likely using isn't pure and typically contains approx 30 ppm oxygen, which will by itself introduce 0.15 ppm DO in your finished beer at a standard 2.5 volumes carbonation level.



Which I may add is the absolute MAX you can see in the cold side (.15ppm) so the rest of your process has to be impeccable otherwise loss of flavor town.
jddevinn
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Re: Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Postby jddevinn » Thu May 26, 2016 11:22 am

Techbrau wrote:It might be possible for you to do a steam purge on your final serving keg and get super low oxygen levels. It's worth looking into.

I would suggest moving to spunding to carbonate though. The food grade CO2 you're likely using isn't pure and typically contains approx 30 ppm oxygen, which will by itself introduce 0.15 ppm DO in your finished beer at a standard 2.5 volumes carbonation level.



This is something I had not heard of or even considered before!! I would then have to assume that the CO2 purchased by breweries that are correctly controlling O2 and are carbonating using CO2 stones in brite tanks have a different source of CO2?

I'll look into spunding to carbonate... however, I still would like to be able to move from the "brite tank" keg into another keg for serving just so the sediment does not get disturbed when moving the keg. It may be another month before I look into this, but when I do if it works out I'll start a seperate thread.
jddevinn
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Re: Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Postby jddevinn » Thu May 26, 2016 11:25 am

I just had another thought as well... I ferment in stainless conicals. When I cold crash I pressurize the conicals slightly so that air does not get pulled in. I'll have to look at modifying the conicals so that I can spud carbonate directly in the conical before transferring to a keg!
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Brody
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Re: Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Postby Brody » Thu May 26, 2016 11:27 am

Think hooking the gas on at lower PSI for serving is going to slowly creep up 02 levels over time?
Bryan R
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Re: Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Postby Bryan R » Thu May 26, 2016 1:31 pm

Brody wrote:Think hooking the gas on at lower PSI for serving is going to slowly creep up 02 levels over time?



Yes, but coupled with the sulfur from fermentation, and only using it to push the beer we should be fine.
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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Postby Ancient Abbey » Thu May 26, 2016 2:11 pm

Drink it faster
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jddevinn
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Re: Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Postby jddevinn » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:09 pm

Does anyone have an opinion on the results/process changes if:

1. Complete fermentation in conical
2. Dry hop (for styles that need)
3. Add a priming sugar solution to the conical
4. Proper purge and transfer to kegs
5. Spudd carbonate

?? wouldn't this result in the same O2 levels as completing the primary fermentation in the kegs and spudding but also allow for a dry hop?
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mpietropaoli
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Re: Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Postby mpietropaoli » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:51 am

jddevinn wrote:Does anyone have an opinion on the results/process changes if:

1. Complete fermentation in conical
2. Dry hop (for styles that need)
3. Add a priming sugar solution to the conical
4. Proper purge and transfer to kegs
5. Spudd carbonate

?? wouldn't this result in the same O2 levels as completing the primary fermentation in the kegs and spudding but also allow for a dry hop?


We were thinking of doing this in the event we miss the spunding zone (1% extract) like on our first attempt. Which is still pretty tasty!
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Bryan R
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Re: Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Postby Bryan R » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:59 am

jddevinn wrote:Does anyone have an opinion on the results/process changes if:

1. Complete fermentation in conical
2. Dry hop (for styles that need)
3. Add a priming sugar solution to the conical
4. Proper purge and transfer to kegs
5. Spudd carbonate

?? wouldn't this result in the same O2 levels as completing the primary fermentation in the kegs and spudding but also allow for a dry hop?


Possibly, only trying and using your DO meter along the way will tell you. Remember you have about a shot glass's worth of air to deal with in the cold side process( TOTAL) before you lose what you strived so hard to make. Proceed with caution.

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