Experiences and issues with low O2 process

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mpietropaoli
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Re: Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Postby mpietropaoli » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:17 am

Not trying to quibble here, but if yeast are present at cold side, aren't they scavenging enough oxygen to keep you below a shot glass-worth?

I should clarify as well: we will dry hop DURING active fermentation (day 3 or 4 with an ale strain), then either krausen or use sugar to keg condition on a spunding transfer.
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Re: Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Postby Bryan R » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:46 am

mpietropaoli wrote:Not trying to quibble here, but if yeast are present at cold side, aren't they scavenging enough oxygen to keep you below a shot glass-worth?

I should clarify as well: we will dry hop DURING active fermentation (day 3 or 4 with an ale strain), then either krausen or use sugar to keg condition on a spunding transfer.


Not if there is no sugar left for them to stick around and be active.
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Re: Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Postby jddevinn » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:49 am

Bryan R wrote:
jddevinn wrote:Does anyone have an opinion on the results/process changes if:

1. Complete fermentation in conical
2. Dry hop (for styles that need)
3. Add a priming sugar solution to the conical
4. Proper purge and transfer to kegs
5. Spudd carbonate

?? wouldn't this result in the same O2 levels as completing the primary fermentation in the kegs and spudding but also allow for a dry hop?


Possibly, only trying and using your DO meter along the way will tell you. Remember you have about a shot glass's worth of air to deal with in the cold side process( TOTAL) before you lose what you strived so hard to make. Proceed with caution.


Naturally carbonating in the keg is going to scrub any small amount of O2 that got into the beer during the transfer correct?

Does the DO meter that everyone is using measure the .2ppm range with accuracy? If so I need to get me one!
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Re: Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Postby Brandon » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:52 am

Bryan R wrote:
mpietropaoli wrote:Not trying to quibble here, but if yeast are present at cold side, aren't they scavenging enough oxygen to keep you below a shot glass-worth?

I should clarify as well: we will dry hop DURING active fermentation (day 3 or 4 with an ale strain), then either krausen or use sugar to keg condition on a spunding transfer.


Not if there is no sugar left for them to stick around and be active.


So, with fermentables and active fermentation, it should be fine (from an O2 absorption standpoint)? Then I would imagine pellet vs whole hops make a difference. You wouldn't want to load up on too much O2.

Would it be adequate to transfer from primary into a secondary/spunden keg that was only purged with CO2 (vs DO water), put the hops into that keg and rack into it? Maybe at a little higher gravity than typical for spunden?
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Re: Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Postby Bryan R » Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:00 am

When I tried it(and had varying success rates, but mostly bad). I did the sani to top purge, then hop bag with hops in purge. Then I added the bag quickly to the keg, closed and purged the whole keg again. I was still at .5+ ppm. I have now since went to hop extracts for dry hopping, and I dose those with a syringe inline from the fermenter to the spunding keg. This method allows me to stay under .1.
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Re: Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Postby Brandon » Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:03 am

Bryan R wrote:When I tried it(and had varying success rates, but mostly bad). I did the sani to top purge, then hop bag with hops in purge. Then I added the bag quickly to the keg, closed and purged the whole keg again. I was still at .5+ ppm. I have now since went to hop extracts for dry hopping, and I dose those with a syringe inline from the fermenter to the spunding keg. This method allows me to stay under .1.


From what I was just texting (I think this is appropriate for this discussion)..."I feel like the lodo Helles from the doc makes a representative example of a basic Helles. BUT...I haven't made anything close to resembling a proper Pilsner. Eh...I could probably do Bitburger. But not Warsteiner, Radeberger, Jever, etc."

I bet hop extract has a role in this. These are very hoppy, rich and flavorful beers, especially compared to the typical bottled Helles. I don't yet see how to do it without extract and maintain freshness and that fullness of flavor.
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mpietropaoli
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Re: Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Postby mpietropaoli » Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:12 am

Hoppy, yes...but aren't the majority of the hops from 60min+ and FW hops? Or are you saying they are dry hopped as well.

Bryan, yes, my thought was that we would either krausen the beer or add a simple syrup so the yeast would be active during a transfer.
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Re: Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Postby Bryan R » Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:55 am

jddevinn wrote:
Does the DO meter that everyone is using measure the .2ppm range with accuracy? If so I need to get me one!


I seem to have decent luck with it. I have more pictures of low readings somewhere....
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Re: Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Postby jddevinn » Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:55 pm

Bryan R wrote:
jddevinn wrote:
Does the DO meter that everyone is using measure the .2ppm range with accuracy? If so I need to get me one!


I seem to have decent luck with it. I have more pictures of low readings somewhere....
ImageImage


The results are repeatable though? From the datasheet (http://www.extech.com/instruments/resou ... _DS-en.pdf) the resolution of the meter is .01ppm but the "basic accuracy" is 0.4ppm.
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Re: Experiences and issues with low O2 process

Postby Bryan R » Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:33 pm

I had had no issues, and I know Tech has been down to .06. I know its not optimum, but for our intents and purposes it works a treat.

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