I have so many questions about the low O2 paper

Infusion, Decoction, Step, etc

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uberg33k
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I have so many questions about the low O2 paper

Postby uberg33k » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:41 pm

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Ancient Abbey
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I have so many questions about the low O2 paper

Postby Ancient Abbey » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:08 pm

[*] How does decoction work in this system? I mean, you have to keep stirring the mash to keep it from scorching and there's many cycles of removing and adding heated mash. That would seem like a lot of O2 is getting in at that point.
- yes, that's true, but also why they mash under inert gases, like nitrogen.

[*] Adding a ton of metabisulfate seems very un-German. I mean, is this a case of the ends justifying the means? I just have a hard time thinking about doing it and not having some German master brewer scowling at me in disapproval.
- The RHG allows german brewers to add salts to the brewing water, SMB is no different than Gypsum. Also, we are adapting to homebrewing equipment. You can install a port to flush with nitrogen, but SMB is much easier.


[*] Where is the data mentioned in the paper? It read as if there were many trials run of low O2 produced beers vs a more standard homebrew procedure. Where can I read up on that?
- Just try it for yourself. We even posted a mini-mash method.


[*] From a food chemistry perspective, it would seem that all the sodium from the SMB would have a large impact on flavor. Have any trials been done with a homebrew method not utilizing SMB in a low O2 production vs low O2 with SMB? How about standard homebrew with higher sodium vs low O2 with SMB?
- Again, if you have a system capable of flushing with nitrogen, we are happy to test lodo with SMB and lodo without. We didn't have the ability (yet) to continuously use inert gases. Again, just try it.


[*] I'm sure there are plenty of big name breweries using low O2/inert brewing systems, but what about the little guys? There are still plenty of breweries out there using equipment from the 60's and I don't see them being able to pull something like this off. Are they just not seen as producing beer that's as good?
- Are you sure about that? If you can get them to squeal about what they add to their water, then we'd love to know. Bavarian brewers are very tight lipped.


[*] What about open fermentation? I know of at least one lager brewer in Bamberg (Griefenklau) that does open fermentation on their lager. I'm guessing there are others as well. Are their beers just not considered as good? I know the PDF is focused on lager, but wouldn't the techniques apply to all German beers like a hefe that also might be open fermented? What about those beers?
- What about those beers? We don't claim to know what every brewery does, but while primary may be open, they can still transfer to a closed vessel to spunden and lager.


[*] Is there a wiki or some kind of document repository here for all the papers written by forum members and the documents they reference? I admit my German is bad, so those papers might not help me much, but I'd like to review what got people started down this path.[/list]
- Just on all of our computers. Everything was found via google or brewing texts.

You can try to convince yourself it works upfront, or you can simply perform the mini-mash. If you aren't convinced, then move on. If you are, then you will tackled questions like above with a different mindset. Good luck!
Last edited by Ancient Abbey on Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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caedus
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Re: I have so many questions about the low O2 paper

Postby caedus » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:09 pm

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ajk
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I have so many questions about the low O2 paper

Postby ajk » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:53 pm

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Bilsch
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Re: I have so many questions about the low O2 paper

Postby Bilsch » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:57 pm

What is all the fuss about data and more sources?
You are best judge of your own tastes. Try it and see for yourself, that's the best source you can have. If your scared about equipment changes do the mini mash first. I've been brewing for 31 years and the change to lodo was by far the single biggest improvement to my system, more then everything else combined. Don't worry, just try it!
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Roachbrau
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Re: I have so many questions about the low O2 paper

Postby Roachbrau » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:07 pm

I can list page numbers in Technology Brewing & Malting by Wolfgang Kunze that answer many questions, and back up many statements, but is that really necessary?

Folks, these principles of preventing oxidation are used by 90% of the brewers on this planet, save for homebrewers and the craft beer industry that sprang from homebrewing. Everyone from the US macros to the Germans, Czechs, Belgians, we suspect even the Brits.

The world is not round.

Slice open an apple and let it sit for an hour, what happens? It turns brown. Why? Oxygen. That same thing happens to your wort if you don't take the necessary steps to prevent it.
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Ancient Abbey
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Re: I have so many questions about the low O2 paper

Postby Ancient Abbey » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:59 pm

Exactly Roach, homo sapiens have pretty good senses. If you can taste the difference, then lodo might be for you. If you cannot, then honestly evaluate if you messed up a particular part of the process or if you simply cannot taste a difference. If you are trying to convince the masses, then do triangle tests. If you are trying to convince yourself, then just taste it and be honest.
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Kit_B
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Re: I have so many questions about the low O2 paper

Postby Kit_B » Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:05 am

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mchrispen
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Re: I have so many questions about the low O2 paper

Postby mchrispen » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:16 pm

uberg33k
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Re: I have so many questions about the low O2 paper

Postby uberg33k » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:30 pm


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