So let's talk about decoction

[Brandon]

I brewed a [double] decoction Dunkel a few months ago and, during brewing, I took a break while the boil was starting to go buy some ice for chilling. Now...months later the beer now has those tell tail signs of oxidation, meaning I screwed up tail end and post-fermentation handling and required oxygen control. But the decoction aroma on my hands while I was buying ice was out of this world. It smelled like what Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel wort must smell like. Wholly crap it was fantastic.

If I were to do a basically 100% (or close to it) Munich Malt Dunkel, decocoted, paying attention to oxygen control throughout, should I end up with a stable, delicious beer? Using dark(er) malts, should provide more antioxidant buffer, the mash boil should reduce O2, careful transfer, etc.

I am looking for those chocolately/rich/Munich malt notes, not so much the light sweet floral/hay notes of Pilsner malt. If I ferment and then do the more tight closed transfers I'm doing now, I would think it would stay more stable. Should I expect more decoction 'flavor' to carry through?

[Bryan R]

I had Kit and his family over last weekend and he sampled my 60/60, 60/30/10 dunkel among others. I really enjoyed the beer recently. When Kit tried it he said it gave him chills... I also get chills before I throw up though so who knows

[Brandon]

[Bryan R]

Yea given 1, I just don't see a way to do it with out going super crazy.

Impact maybe something. I would like to think so anyway.

[mchrispen]

It seems that a large pressure vessel set to low pressure and some stirring apparatus might make sense. Assuming gentle mash transfers, etc. The steam pressure set low should provide positive pressure to keep out O2. Not sure if such a think, even at 0.5 bar could be plumbed in with standard Tc and ball valves. As a 4th vessel in a RIMs system, it could be managed with some serious engineering. If a 0 o2 environment is established, then the decoction impact could be isolated.

[Feurhund]

How about a CO2 flushed pressure cooker? No stirring at least.

[Bilsch]

In this imaginary decoction system... If a thicker decoction mash could be heated with direct seam, negating the need for stirring. And the vessel could withstand a little pressure from the inert gas blanket... then one might also be able to "pull the decoction" by transferring back and forth a certain amount of mash with pressure eliminating the need for a pump. So two vessels rated for at least a few psi, side by side connected near the bottom by a butterfly valve, equipped with direct steam heat and nitrogen inlet. Hey, I can dream too.

[Owenbräu]

Interestingly, I was going through some pre-lodo notes recently, and I frequently commented on the amazing aroma of decoctions. While it's clear that when the aroma is filling the room, it's no longer in the wort. However, I'm not sure whether the amazing aroma was because I was creating new compounds during decoction or whether I was just driving them out of the wort. I've had plenty of plain step mashes that smelled amazing (pre-lodo) too. All the malt flavor you really need is likely already in the grist. For me, it's a matter of preserving those flavors and aromas, rathering than trying to create new ones.

[phishie]

My apologies if the answer to this question is obvious but I want to be certain.

Are any of you employing a hochkurz mash in your LODO brewing process using a decoction boil to raise temps?

My running assumption has been the logistics of boiling within a hochkurz mash are too likely for O2 ingress so everyone is using direct heat or infusions to achieve the steps of a hochkurz mash.

[Bryan R]

None of us are using decoctions for anything at this point.