Antioxin SBT

Infusion, Decoction, Step, etc

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Big Monk
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Re: Antioxin SBT

Postby Big Monk » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:09 pm

Cavpilot2000 wrote:
Weizenberg wrote:It's really easy to make. Unhopped wort into growler, put a handful of malt grain (whole) into it. Set thermostat to 48C, come back after 24 hrs. Done.

It's much cheaper than technical acid (and acidulated malt). It also has it's very distinct flavour contribution (think saison, think sour mash). People who have tried it eventually became ardent proponents of it. You won't get that from acidulated malt.

SG also has a redox potential. Considering how much people invest in this hobby, it's surprising so few are seeing the value of SG.

Odd.


Okay, I think you've got me sold. I'll look up your links and do it. Don't be surprised if I come back to you with questions though...

Like these:
Is timing important? Like with a yeast starter, you need a few days for it to ferment and multiply and then cold crash and decant - more than a day or two plus or minus your target day, and it is less effective. Do you need to prepare it X days before planned use, or does it keep for a while? Are you relying on an active culture (where timing might be important) or just their byproducts (less important)?


You'll want to have a general idea of the acid percentage to accurately predict pH. You can either use titration or trial and error. Over time it seems to stabilize between 1.7-1.8% lactic acid
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Re: Antioxin SBT

Postby Weizenberg » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:42 pm

I use a corny keg, which makes it easy to inject CO2. Here is how i do it.

Friday:

make 5l 12% starter wort from same grain bill as brew (some call this a mini-mash). That starter is inert mashed as much as possible (degassed water + small amount of anti-oxidant)

Add into corny keg. By now the temp is usually below target temp.

Add a handful of whole, uncrushed, malt grains

Lid on

2 x CO2 purge of keg

Thermostat set to 48C


Sunday:

Brew day. Adjust mash with SG according to preference to pH 5.4-5.6

Adjust post boil to pH 5.1-5.2 15 minutes before end.

Done.


Kunze as well as the 2 major publications by Narziss explain this in more detail. This should get you going though. Generally you won't need more than 5% of your target volume.
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Re: Antioxin SBT

Postby Weizenberg » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:10 am

Cavpilot2000 wrote:
Okay, I think you've got me sold. I'll look up your links and do it. Don't be surprised if I come back to you with questions though...

Like these:
Is timing important? Like with a yeast starter, you need a few days for it to ferment and multiply and then cold crash and decant - more than a day or two plus or minus your target day, and it is less effective. Do you need to prepare it X days before planned use, or does it keep for a while? Are you relying on an active culture (where timing might be important) or just their byproducts (less important)?


Timing:. I like them best rather fresh. 48 hours is your max. You can keep it a bit longer storing it at 3-5C fir a week, then it needs freshening up. Remove at least 50% of the volume and mix with fresh unhopped wort. Then proceed as with grain.

You don't need to cold crash. Use straight away.

All that quickly becomes apparent once you try it. The difficult thing to overcome here is the mental block and fear from a method one is unfamiliar with - everyone struggles with this at some point.
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Re: Antioxin SBT

Postby bjanat » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:42 am

Nico, what would be the disadvantages of using a bottle of sour beer, if that's more convenient? Wouldn't the low ph help maintain its qualities? I thought of sourdough, I have a culture going on for two years, wouldn't the same principles apply?
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Re: Antioxin SBT

Postby Ancient Abbey » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:26 am

Ski wrote:...Also getting very clear wort following Bryan's trub removal procedure. I whirlpool in the kettle to settle out hops and break, then I gently pump to a second vessel to let cold break and trub settle out for a couple of hours. Then a gentle gravity pour in the fermenter.

This process was well described by Kunze and Narziss long before Bryan came along. In fact, it was someone here that taught Bryan that very method.
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Re: Antioxin SBT

Postby Weizenberg » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:13 am

Ancient Abbey wrote:
Ski wrote:...Also getting very clear wort following Bryan's trub removal procedure. I whirlpool in the kettle to settle out hops and break, then I gently pump to a second vessel to let cold break and trub settle out for a couple of hours. Then a gentle gravity pour in the fermenter.

This process was well described by Kunze and Narziss long before Bryan came along. In fact, it was someone here that taught Bryan that very method.


:tu
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Re: Antioxin SBT

Postby Big Monk » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:27 am

Weizenberg wrote:
Ancient Abbey wrote:
Ski wrote:...Also getting very clear wort following Bryan's trub removal procedure. I whirlpool in the kettle to settle out hops and break, then I gently pump to a second vessel to let cold break and trub settle out for a couple of hours. Then a gentle gravity pour in the fermenter.

This process was well described by Kunze and Narziss long before Bryan came along. In fact, it was someone here that taught Bryan that very method.


:tu


To be fair, Bryan doesn't refer to it as "His" procedure. We outline the literature and process on our site but don't claim it as our own.

Just wanted to clarify.
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Re: Antioxin SBT

Postby Ski » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:33 pm

AA:
In fact, it was someone here that taught Bryan that very method.

No desire to offend anyone here - just mentioning where I first came across the idea. I realise there are issues over who gets credit. But I am very grateful for all the excellent information that's been made freely available on this site. It has put me on a mission.
Weizenberg - you mention a 5L growler as your reactor - how much do you use on brewday? What do you do with the remainder? How do you avoid O2 in the sauergut? I've been reading avidly in this forum about sauergut. It's my next project on the path to good beer. It seems to me that this may be the next big step to It. May be something worthy of a paper, indeed!
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Re: Antioxin SBT

Postby Ski » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:41 pm

lupulus:
Why would Antoxin affect the break?

In short: No idea! Just an observation, and there may be other reasons.
I've been using Weyermann Acid Malt also. I've stopped using lactic acid, switched entirely to acid malt, and started using SBT altogether, so I don't know which is doing what. Since I brew ales, I thought that SBT may help reduce sulphur aromas compared to SMB alone.
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Re: Antioxin SBT

Postby Weizenberg » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:37 pm

Ski wrote:AA:
In fact, it was someone here that taught Bryan that very method.

No desire to offend anyone here - just mentioning where I first came across the idea. I realise there are issues over who gets credit. But I am very grateful for all the excellent information that's been made freely available on this site. It has put me on a mission.
Weizenberg - you mention a 5L growler as your reactor - how much do you use on brewday? What do you do with the remainder? How do you avoid O2 in the sauergut? I've been reading avidly in this forum about sauergut. It's my next project on the path to good beer. It seems to me that this may be the next big step to It. May be something worthy of a paper, indeed!


Credit goes squarely to Kunze, Narziss and Techbrau for painstakingly figuring out how to adapt what happens in huge systems to homebrew setups.

I got pissed off by others making it out differently, I apologise for blowing a fuse there.

No matter what vessel size, what works well is a setup where you can inject/flush with CO2 and keep warm at 48-49C for 24 hrs. That's all you need.

It's not magic. Just do it ;)
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