Water Degassing Methods (Kunze)

Brewing water, and water profiles

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Ancient Abbey
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Water Degassing Methods (Kunze)

Postby Ancient Abbey » Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:41 am

Kunze describes 5 basic methods for degassing water in the brewhaus. They include:
- CO2 washing (stripping)
- vacuum
- hydrogen reduction
- thermal (steam) reduction
- fibre membranes

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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Water Degassing Methods (Kunze)

Postby Ancient Abbey » Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:47 am

CO2 stripping is (can be) pretty complicated, but I think there is a lot of potential for us with the vortex-stripping method. Hydrogen requires a catalyst and constant maintenance and monitoring.

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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Water Degassing Methods (Kunze)

Postby Ancient Abbey » Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:49 am

The vacuum method sounds simple, but Kunze claims it must be combined with CO2 washing, so vacuum alone may only be beneficial at our scale for preventing oxygen ingress during storage.
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Re: Water Degassing Methods (Kunze)

Postby Ancient Abbey » Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:53 am

Thermal degassing is probably the simplest, but it seems we must use steam to truly remove all of the oxygen. I think this is where goat comes in handy to polish off removing oxygen after we boil. As well, it may explain why just pre-boiling batches underachieved in results. The membrane system would seem to work for us, it's just a matter of finding a design and building one. He does state that the difference in concentration between the water and CO2 is the driving force to degassing oxygen.

It would be interesting to see if we could simply distill water, and make degassed water. Pressure cookers could easily be adapted for this. It might require some inert gas flushing as the vapor condenses, but can probably by done.

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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Water Degassing Methods (Kunze)

Postby Ancient Abbey » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:02 am

Anyone have a simple build for a de-gasing tower?
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Bilsch
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Re: Water Degassing Methods (Kunze)

Postby Bilsch » Tue May 03, 2016 9:26 pm

I wonder what the stripping capacity would be of...
Filling a keg with your brewing water then chilling and force carbonating at high pressure. Then one could let the temp rise while venting though a spunding valve set at ever decreasing pressures over time. The steady evolution of CO2 from the solution should take a considerable quantity of O2 with it, maybe all. If one had a direct fire-able keg, such as the ones without rubber moldings, the whole thing could be raised to the strike temperature and pressure fed to the mash tun. Theoretically if one used enough pressure, chilling would not be necessary for the solution of enough CO2 to provide an adequate strip upon depressurization. The process could be automated and repeated as well to improve the removal of O2.
I doubt though this would be practical, time and cost wise, compared to boiling.
The one advantage that I do see, if it worked, would be the ability to prepare the water ahead of brew day since it should be storable for a while under pressure. (as long as there weren't any CO2 eating bacteria in there)
Just tossing it out there for conversation.
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Re: Water Degassing Methods (Kunze)

Postby wobdee » Sat May 07, 2016 10:31 am

What was the deal with abscorbic acid for degassing again? I remember it mentioned that it was tricky and could cause problems?
Techbrau
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Re: Water Degassing Methods (Kunze)

Postby Techbrau » Sat May 07, 2016 12:06 pm

From another thread:

Techbrau wrote:The biggest issue is what's left over after the ascorbic acid does its job. Upon oxidation, ascorbic acid turns into a compound called dehydroascorbic acid, which is actually pretty unstable and reactive in beer. It can cause problems down the line in the finished beer, actually becoming a potent oxidizing agent itself.

The really nice things about sulfite are:

1. It works quickly - oxygen is scavenged by sulfite faster than it can damage the wort
2. It turns into sulfate (SO4) upon oxidation, which most people add to their brewing water anyway
3. Any excess is either blown off by the boil or fermentation, or alternatively is taken up by the yeast who actually use it as a nutrient.

We've measured the final sulfite levels in lodo beers using test strips (I think Ancient has posted pics of this somewhere), and they're approximately on par with what you would measure in a bottle of commercial beer.
If you always do what you've always done, then you'll always get what you've always gotten.
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Re: Water Degassing Methods (Kunze)

Postby wobdee » Sat May 07, 2016 2:17 pm

Yeah, that's it, thanks

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