Decoction Reasoning & Why single infusion Just doesn't work

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Re: Decoction Reasoning & Why single infusion Just doesn't w

Postby wobdee » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:52 pm

Wow, 3-5 hour step mashing? And I thought 2 hours was excessive. Sure would be interesting to know more details. Maybe the first hour or two is an acid rest to dial in their PH?
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Re: Decoction Reasoning & Why single infusion Just doesn't w

Postby Weizenberg » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:12 pm

Wheat malt is very tough. Those who milled it will know. Even with a slightly tighter grind, it is difficult to release all the starches in the grain. The options are either a much longer mash schedule or a decoction. Decoctions really work the grain, especially the tips where the stach is the hardest to release. Wheat malt is stubborn and needs a lot of work. A mash schedule ok for lagers will result in a lower yield once wheat malt comes into play. This is why decoctions are still the most widely used by small breweries who cannot affor the long mash times it would otherwise take. The benefit of a longer mash time using step infusions only, is the energy saving. For a large scale brewery, this can far outweigh the cost in the longer time taken. For a home Brewer all of this is a non issue. In fact, the shorter schedule is actually favourable.

Always mash your wheat beers longer than your lagers or ales and the yield will thank you ;)
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Re: Decoction Reasoning& Why single infusion Just doesn't wo

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Re: Decoction Reasoning & Why single infusion Just doesn't w

Postby Beersk » Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:51 am

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Re: Decoction Reasoning & Why single infusion Just doesn't work

Postby Weizenberg » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:06 pm

Even with infusion mashes the total time is often in the 150 minute range. Decoctions are more energy intensive -- which is a big consideration for breweries. For the homebrewer it's not that much of a concern. Done correctly it pretty much amounts to a similar time-frame (see Narziß's comments on infusion mashes).
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Re: Decoction Reasoning & Why single infusion Just doesn't work

Postby Brody » Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:07 pm

Nice read, neat to see PA represented well on the list - hadn't realized Stoudt's, Victory, and Sam Adams (a lot of their production is done in PA) decoct. I suppose Victory doesn't surprise me since the brewers schooled in Weinstephan. I don't know if the decoction plays any part but their festbier is insanely malty. First sip I had felt like I was drinking a sack of malt.

Met the brewer of Victory at an event at Frankford Hall beer garden in Philly not too long ago. Wish I had a good conversation with him.
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Re: Decoction Reasoning & Why single infusion Just doesn't work

Postby Weizenberg » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:16 am

having tasted their products I must say that I am underwhelmed with the results. It's the first time I ever had to pour a drink down the sink the moment I tasted it.

I know it sounds harsh, but then their pils was harsh on me too.
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Re: Decoction Reasoning & Why single infusion Just doesn't work

Postby Techbrau » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:35 am

I completely agree. Prima Pils is a sorry excuse for a Pilsner.
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Re: Decoction Reasoning & Why single infusion Just doesn't work

Postby Brody » Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:24 pm

Actually haven't had that one, it's generally well reviewed tho. I have read it's fairly hoppy for the style though which would make sense if craft beer fans generally love it and traditional lager fans do not. Reading up on it it looks like they decoct, use a lot of whole flower hops (czech & german), and some sort of german malt.

You found Victory in the UK? Wonder if travel hurt it.

Off topic but their beer I see the most is Dirtwolf - scored great in a blind 2xIPA test some buddies had against the big Vermont ones.
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Re: Decoction Reasoning & Why single infusion Just doesn't work

Postby Weizenberg » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:32 pm

it won't be that awful from travel alone
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