Working through Kunze: Wort Production, Malt Milling (3.1)

Wort making

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Brody
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Working through Kunze: Wort Production, Malt Milling (3.1)

Postby Brody » Wed May 04, 2016 9:44 am

Yesterday I worked through Chapter 3 (Wort Production) Section 1 (Milling) of Kunze. I have to admit, any knowledge gained here is bittersweet since I don't own a mill and am trying to hold off on the purchase until I own a home.

There were a few key takeaways and surprises that I had:

1) He outlines 3 categories of milling - Dry, Wet, and Hammer. I'm assuming everyone here dry mills?

2) When Kunze describes the conditioning process it was no surprise as I've read your approach on it. But there was one shocker in 3.1.3.6 under advantages: "The Yield and Final Attenuation are increased" and "A faster iodine normality is obtained during mashing". Really?? The lautering benefits make sense but I'm trying to wrap my head around how conditioning would affect attenuation & yield, unless it's related to a more thorough grind.

3) Concerning Oxygen: Kunze states that after milling "oxidation processes begin immediately & microbes develope, especially in conditioned grist". There's the big argument for milling at home. At present I have the homebrew shop mill it for me and often buy a day or two before. I actually drive about 45m-60m to this shop (Keystone Homebrew) as they have by far the best selection in the area. But it may be worth while for me to join a local club that allows use of a mill at a closer shop (Phila. Homebrew Outlet) and I can buy in bulk. I just hate frequenting shops that suggest Breiss C-60 when you ask for Weyerman Carahell... but it should shorten my mill to mash time and allow me to condition it myself.

I'm also wondering if there is any practical way to purge some of the 02 in the grain. My idea is to put the grain in my brew bag, put the bag in a corny keg, hook nitrogen (or at least 75/25 beer gas) into the liquid out post, and purge away shaking up the keg to mix up the malt. No idea if this would work.

Any thoughts or other big points related to Milling you guys have experienced?
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Re: Working through Kunze: Wort Production, Malt Milling (3.1)

Postby ajk » Wed May 04, 2016 9:50 am

When you condition, you can get away with a much finer crush. So there's some efficiency gain right there. My mill is set to about 0.03 inches now.
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Re: Working through Kunze: Wort Production, Malt Milling (3.1)

Postby Brandon » Wed May 04, 2016 9:54 am

I wish we lived closer, you'd be welcome to use my mill whenever needed.

Before conditioning, I used to get stuck mashes during recirculation. Those are entirely gone now. I'm still going back and forth with bottom filling the mash tun versus adding grain. I tend to be preferring bottom filling.
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Re: Working through Kunze: Wort Production, Malt Milling (3.1)

Postby wobdee » Wed May 04, 2016 9:59 am

I've been conditioning my grain for over a year, efficiency has pretty much stayed the same as before but I get a much better crush with less flour. Lately I've been spraying conditioning water with 100mg/l smb hoping it helps some.
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Re: Working through Kunze: Wort Production, Malt Milling (3.1)

Postby Kit_B » Wed May 04, 2016 10:06 am

I'm not completely certain, but I would guess that since conditioning allows you a much finer crush, you are creating a much larger surface area & greater solubility, for the enzymes to act upon, at a faster rate.

I can't remember the last time I used a homebrew store's mill.
I bought a Barley Crusher, several years ago & have been extremely happy with it.
They aren't incredibly expensive if you search for them, and they do a great job.
It looks like William's Brewing has a a similar one, for a really good price.
https://www.williamsbrewing.com/DUAL-RO ... P3548.aspx

I'm sure I oxidize the hell out of my grain, since I mill into a plastic bag.
Purging with co2 would probably be a better plan, than what I have done in the past.
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Re: Working through Kunze: Wort Production, Malt Milling (3.1)

Postby Bryan R » Wed May 04, 2016 10:32 am

Brody wrote:Yesterday I worked through Chapter 3 (Wort Production) Section 1 (Milling) of Kunze. I have to admit, any knowledge gained here is b\

3) Concerning Oxygen: Kunze states that after milling "oxidation processes begin immediately & microbes develop, especially in conditioned grist".


Thats the reason, I condition AS I heat the water.
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Brody
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Re: Working through Kunze: Wort Production, Malt Milling (3.1)

Postby Brody » Wed May 04, 2016 10:47 am

Kit_B wrote:I'm not completely certain, but I would guess that since conditioning allows you a much finer crush, you are creating a much larger surface area & greater solubility, for the enzymes to act upon, at a faster rate.

I can't remember the last time I used a homebrew store's mill.
I bought a Barley Crusher, several years ago & have been extremely happy with it.
They aren't incredibly expensive if you search for them, and they do a great job.
It looks like William's Brewing has a a similar one, for a really good price.
https://www.williamsbrewing.com/DUAL-RO ... P3548.aspx

I'm sure I oxidize the hell out of my grain, since I mill into a plastic bag.
Purging with co2 would probably be a better plan, than what I have done in the past.


Look's like all that is is a piece sitting on top of a bucket? I'm used to seeing burly setups at the LHBS. My concern was less around cost (The $100 would easily recoup it self in buying bulk) but more just trying to limit the amount of equipment I own should I move to a place that doesn't have a basement for storage. But a setup like that seems to take up minimal space.
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Brody
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Re: Working through Kunze: Wort Production, Malt Milling (3.1)

Postby Brody » Wed May 04, 2016 10:49 am

Brandon wrote:I wish we lived closer, you'd be welcome to use my mill whenever needed.

Before conditioning, I used to get stuck mashes during recirculation. Those are entirely gone now. I'm still going back and forth with bottom filling the mash tun versus adding grain. I tend to be preferring bottom filling.


Yea, that would be great. By the way - Do you buy online or frequent a shop? I've been trekking up to Montgomeryville for Keystone. They're not perfect but the only place I've found that has Weyerman, Crisp, Thomas Fawcett and a solid selection of yeast and hops.
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Re: Working through Kunze: Wort Production, Malt Milling (3.1)

Postby Brandon » Wed May 04, 2016 10:54 am

Brody wrote:
Brandon wrote:I wish we lived closer, you'd be welcome to use my mill whenever needed.

Before conditioning, I used to get stuck mashes during recirculation. Those are entirely gone now. I'm still going back and forth with bottom filling the mash tun versus adding grain. I tend to be preferring bottom filling.


Yea, that would be great. By the way - Do you buy online or frequent a shop? I've been trekking up to Montgomeryville for Keystone. They're not perfect but the only place I've found that has Weyerman, Crisp, Thomas Fawcett and a solid selection of yeast and hops.


My local shop is Artisan's in Downingtown. But I order online a lot as well because I travel a lot (and it's fun to order stuff while at the airport, etc), and LHBS doesn't carry lager yeast. I've never been to Keystone but have always wanted to take a trip up there.
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Re: Working through Kunze: Wort Production, Malt Milling (3.1)

Postby Ancient Abbey » Wed May 04, 2016 11:42 am

I malt condition with SMB as well. You can really smell the difference between conditioning with and without SMB. Oxidation begins the second the malt gets wet. If you can smell it, then it's no longer in your beer.
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