Step Mashing and Attenuation

Wort making

Moderator: Brandon

User avatar
Futur
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:10 pm

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Step Mashing and Attenuation

Postby Futur » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:33 am

Natebriscoe wrote:
Weizenberg wrote:
Natebriscoe wrote:At 12p it seems about perfect.


What confuses me now is that you started this thread stating that you were "not on your target yet". What did you mean?

My fermentations before working on step mashing would take off at a healthy pace and run right to fg. After starting stepping they take off, ferment like crazy (more so than before) and all but stall at 1.02 then slowly drop a few more pts, still finishing high.


I have the exact same issues with my fermentations. I'm putting it down to the strain of yeast/lack of oxygen. Out of curiosity what yeast strain are you using?
Natebriscoe
Assistant Brewer
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:57 pm

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Step Mashing and Attenuation

Postby Natebriscoe » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:38 am

Futur wrote:
Natebriscoe wrote:
Weizenberg wrote:
What confuses me now is that you started this thread stating that you were "not on your target yet". What did you mean?

My fermentations before working on step mashing would take off at a healthy pace and run right to fg. After starting stepping they take off, ferment like crazy (more so than before) and all but stall at 1.02 then slowly drop a few more pts, still finishing high.


I have the exact same issues with my fermentations. I'm putting it down to the strain of yeast/lack of oxygen. Out of curiosity what yeast strain are you using?

Recently 3068 and 1098. I really feel like o2 is not my issue. 1098 doesn't behave this way with a single infusion for me just stepped.
User avatar
Weizenberg
German Brewing
Posts: 843
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:11 pm
Contact:

Re: Step Mashing and Attenuation

Postby Weizenberg » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:56 pm

Maybe this insight helps...

Before I used pure oxygen and measured the levels with the DO meter, my fermentation was always a bit off. Once that uncertainty gone and the proper levels of oxygen introduced, my fermentation was always dead on with a noticeable improvement in Vsend (or EVG if you like, final apparent attenuation [FAA?]). You may also need to look into providing suitable nutrients. If you use Sauergut (and you should) then the nutrients are already in there.

One thing to ponder is why a lot of home-brewers always think of the mash at fault in the first instance. Bearing in mind that most of the work is already done by the maltster and your influence may be something like 30% at best, unless you dough in north of 72C it'll be very difficult to mess it up. Most of the time, the problems aren't with the mash, they are pretty much everywhere else :)

All our styles are impeccably fermented. It's on the fermentation aspect where a lot of attention is needed and where most improvements are possible. Here is a good book for those wanting to delve further into this fascinating topic (and are not German speaking). Of course, there are many other equally brilliant books, but this is the only one I know of available in English (apart from Kunze).
The Quest for Edelstoff - http://edelstoffquest.wordpress.com
bjanat
Apprentice Brewer
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:28 pm

Re: Step Mashing and Attenuation

Postby bjanat » Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:32 pm

Weizenberg wrote:Maybe this insight helps...

Before I used pure oxygen and measured the levels with the DO meter, my fermentation was always a bit off. Once that uncertainty gone and the proper levels of oxygen introduced, my fermentation was always dead on with a noticeable improvement in Vsend (or EVG if you like, final apparent attenuation [FAA?]). You may also need to look into providing suitable nutrients. If you use Sauergut (and you should) then the nutrients are already in there.

Thanks for the link. Regarding the sauergut and nutrients, is the ideal wort for this only pilsner malt, or would a variation of malts give more nutrients?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
Weizenberg
German Brewing
Posts: 843
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:11 pm
Contact:

Re: Step Mashing and Attenuation

Postby Weizenberg » Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:50 pm

How you make your Sauergut is up to you. That's all I am prepared to tell ;)
The Quest for Edelstoff - http://edelstoffquest.wordpress.com
Techbrau
German Brewing
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:45 pm

Re: Step Mashing and Attenuation

Postby Techbrau » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:04 am

I like to make my sauergut with the same grist as the beer it's slated to be used in.
If you always do what you've always done, then you'll always get what you've always gotten.
User avatar
Nick_D
Apprentice Brewer
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:58 am

Re: Step Mashing and Attenuation

Postby Nick_D » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:31 pm

Having had my own attenuation issues, I took a mini mash to my friends lab and did accurate PH measurement whilst adding saurgut to adjust (even going so far as to centrifuge the samples before measuring, as the debris- husk particles, flour etc,were interfering with the reading (pushing it low))

I found I had to add WAY more saurgut than the mash PH caluclators were suggesting (based on an assumed 1.5 % lactic acid concentration of my saurgut). Perhaps my RO filter is a bit worn, and my water is buffering the acid more than expected, I don't know. Maybe I was incorrectly using the PH calculator.

I fermented out the lab mash, and got the highest attenuation I've ever seen, at 84 %, where I was previously stuck at 77%. Whether that is down to the saurgut's nutrient vaule, or correct PH, or both, I'm not sure. (mash temps and everything else was same I do at home). I'm yet to attempt a full sized batch of lager with this new information, but it scaled up well with my Hefeweizen.
Techbrau
German Brewing
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:45 pm

Re: Step Mashing and Attenuation

Postby Techbrau » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:36 pm

Your sauergut probably was more like 0.8% acid. That's a far more typical value.
If you always do what you've always done, then you'll always get what you've always gotten.
User avatar
Weizenberg
German Brewing
Posts: 843
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:11 pm
Contact:

Re: Step Mashing and Attenuation

Postby Weizenberg » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:48 pm

I find you make the Sauergut the day before then it's, like tech mention d, indeed at 0.8%. If you leave it for another 25 hours you can get to the max.

For what it's worth, most breweries have their SG at 0.8% since they draw it several times during the brewday whilst refreshing with first runnings.

Sauergut can be up to 5% of the total volume used.

I wonder whether you are using a pH meter?
The Quest for Edelstoff - http://edelstoffquest.wordpress.com
bjanat
Apprentice Brewer
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:28 pm

Re: Step Mashing and Attenuation

Postby bjanat » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:49 pm

But RO water would produce less bacteria, as water with buffering is a better growth environment. The recommendations from milk the funk is adding chalk to a lacto starter and decanting off it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest