How in the Hell do I chill the wort down to 45?

Cooling methods, racking of trub and break, etc

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doctorjames
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Re: How in the Hell do I chill the wort down to 45?

Postby doctorjames » Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:05 am

Weizenberg wrote:I got a corney chiller from eBay who can chill a liquid from 15 down to 5 Celsius. This one is connected to the cooling coil inside the fermenter and I do the last bit this way. It's ok to spend some time chilling it down, but leaving it Overnight is a bad idea. I presume you could achieve similar results with a stainless steel immersion chiller.

Initially I recirculate the wort back into the boil kettle and then let it run into the fermenter once one of my probes tells me that the wort leaving the HE is at the same temp as the ground water.


Are you recirculating to keep cold break out of the fermenter? I suppose you risk a bit of DMS if that takes too long?

Apart from that, it's mostly the same as what we do for cooling in the Brewmaster Chronical too — using a PID controlled 12V submersible pump to recirculate water through one of the Cornelius chiller product coils. It can easily get from 18°C -> 6°C in under an hour, so we just run straight through the heat exchanger into the fermenter, and then while it chills a fair bit of the cold break settles. We then pitch yeast and oxygenate with a sight glass and tri-clamp carbonation stone on the bottom of the fermenter cone. Cold break settles around the stone in the sight glass and is discarded.
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jonathan.dunphy
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Re: How in the Hell do I chill the wort down to 45?

Postby jonathan.dunphy » Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:00 pm

Another thought. You could use dry ice + acetone. Should be able to get a nice, frosty -108F combining the two, and both are readily available at local stores. You should be able to reuse the acetone after the dry ice sublimates and just buy new dry ice for brew day.[/quote]


I tried this and holy shit it is awesome. I was reading temps like -50 F in the solution. The water was flowing ice cold. $30 for 2 gallons of acetone and $2 a pound for dry ice . Acetone is not corrosive or so I read. Im doing this every time now!
caedus
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Re: How in the Hell do I chill the wort down to 45?

Postby caedus » Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:53 pm

Huh.... how much dry ice did you use? Mind giving me some more data? Chiller type, input temp, output temp, volume?

Could one use ethanol instead of acetone? If it leaks then it's just ethanol, and you can use it as a sanitizer.
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jonathan.dunphy
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Re: How in the Hell do I chill the wort down to 45?

Postby jonathan.dunphy » Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:07 pm

70/30 acetone to dry ice is what chemists recommend. I tried it with acetone and with 190 proof moonshine and both worked. I started with a simple experiment before I went nuts. If you take some crushed dry iceand slowly add acetone or ethanol and slowly add dry ice chips the temp goes way down in the solution. I will use this by submerging my pre-chiller in a two gallon steel bucket filled with acetone. I will then turn on the water flow to the prechiller and start to add dry ice chips until the water that is exiting the pre-chiller is as close to 32 as I can get without freezing the water in the lines. With regular liquid ice water, and even if I add salt, I can only get the wort down to 55 degrees F.

I did this on a small scale last night with a 2 foot section of copper that I wound into a coil. I plugged the water flow into the tiny coil and found that the water exiting the coil was super cold(just above 32 degrees F). The temp inside the dry ice bath reached -50F! Remember I was using a very small amount of dry ice chips and only 2 feet of copper. Imagine when I dunk the 25 foot chiller in 2 gallons of acetone and 5 lbs of dry ice on hand. I will just have to monitor the situation so nothing freezes.

I want to do another experiment when I document temperatures as I add the dry ice to get some consistency.



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jonathan.dunphy
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Re: How in the Hell do I chill the wort down to 45?

Postby jonathan.dunphy » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:00 pm

jonathan.dunphy wrote:70/30 acetone to dry ice is what chemists recommend. I tried it with acetone and with 190 proof moonshine and both worked. I started with a simple experiment before I went nuts. If you take some crushed dry iceand slowly add acetone or ethanol and slowly add dry ice chips the temp goes way down in the solution. I will use this by submerging my pre-chiller in a two gallon steel bucket filled with acetone. I will then turn on the water flow to the prechiller and start to add dry ice chips until the water that is exiting the pre-chiller is as close to 32 as I can get without freezing the water in the lines. With regular liquid ice water, and even if I add salt, I can only get the wort down to 55 degrees F.

I did this on a small scale last night with a 2 foot section of copper that I wound into a coil. I plugged the water flow into the tiny coil and found that the water exiting the coil was super cold(just above 32 degrees F). The temp inside the dry ice bath reached -50F! Remember I was using a very small amount of dry ice chips and only 2 feet of copper. Imagine when I dunk the 25 foot chiller in 2 gallons of acetone and 5 lbs of dry ice on hand. I will just have to monitor the situation so nothing freezes.

I want to do another experiment when I document temperatures as I add the dry ice to get some consistency.

Upon further review it is better to start with crushed dry ice and slowly add acetone to cool even better.



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caedus
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Re: How in the Hell do I chill the wort down to 45?

Postby caedus » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:07 pm

upload to imgur and then link is what i do
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Weizenberg
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Re: How in the Hell do I chill the wort down to 45?

Postby Weizenberg » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:21 am

I bring it down to near supply water temperature by recirculating slowly through my HE. Then I switch via a 3 way valve for the wort to run through a Cornelius Max 310 chiller into the fermenter. This gives me 45/50l of wort at 5 Celsius
Last edited by Weizenberg on Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jonathan.dunphy
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Re: How in the Hell do I chill the wort down to 45?

Postby jonathan.dunphy » Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:49 am

I did more experiments last night and found freezing to be a problem for my pre chiller. I was unable to maintain a constant temp. I am going to experiment with dry ice, ethanol and ethylene glycol (antifreeze) tonight.
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Ancient Abbey
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Re: How in the Hell do I chill the wort down to 45?

Postby Ancient Abbey » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:19 pm

I'm interested to hear more.
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Bilsch
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Re: How in the Hell do I chill the wort down to 45?

Postby Bilsch » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:30 pm

Acetone/dry ice is common in the lab for doing reactions at sub zero temperatures however your not trying to bring your beer to 30 below. Low temperature does not equal thermal capacity and I would venture to say that a pound of carbon dioxide ice would not remove as much heat as a few pounds of ice. Circulating super cold fluid through a chiller will just cause the wort to freeze on it and that accumuled layer of ice around it will impede thermal transfer. Why mess around with highly flammable solvents when a bucket of ice water will do the job cheaper? Also imagine your beer, or your kitchen floor, if a fitting leaks acetone.

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