Bavarian Cold Fermentation

How are you fermenting?

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Bilsch
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Re: Bavarian Cold Fermentation

Postby Bilsch » Sun May 28, 2017 11:31 am

Have you checked your differential temp setting on your ferment chamber control ? Also are you running a small internal fan to allow for better heat exchange? If not these two things can cause big temp swings during cycling stressing your yeast and they will drop out early.
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Weizenberg
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Re: Bavarian Cold Fermentation

Postby Weizenberg » Sun May 28, 2017 11:35 am

You are not comparing like with like.

If you do one of your Ales with at least 50% wheat, Chances are that you will experience the same issues.

What was the mash schedule you used again?
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Smellyglove
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Re: Bavarian Cold Fermentation

Postby Smellyglove » Tue May 30, 2017 6:23 pm

The temp in the chamber differentiates a bit, since I'm doing this brew passivly (Two buckets in the fridge, measuring ambient). I see/measure no difference in activity comparing to when I had one bucket, measured on the bucket. Even if the temp swings 0.5C below setpoint, I believe the thermal mass will withstand it pretty good. So the swings are about +0.3, down to -0.5C. but that's ambient. So the wort does not see this huge swing in temperature.

I used 50C 15 min, ramp to 63c hold for 45mins, pull decoction, boil it, when boil is done, the main mash is at 72C, add decoction, temp rises about 0.5C. Then mashout. It's an un-german way to decoct, i know, I'm just in it for the maillard products of the decoction, it's already converted after the 63C step when I pull it, and I don't see any buff in extraction efficiency comparing to non-decocted. This first 1.018 beer wasn't even decocted.
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Weizenberg
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Re: Bavarian Cold Fermentation

Postby Weizenberg » Wed May 31, 2017 2:01 am

I'm not surprised you didn't expose enough starches to the beta-amylase.

You most likely didn't use a tighter mill setting -- which prolongs the time you need to spend in the beta range.

I don't know what a German way of decocting should look like, but it's certainly not a good way to handle wheat beers.

For consistently good results you will need to:

1) mill the wheat malt at a much finer setting than for barley malt
2) do a lot more work in the lower temperature ranges.

You can most certainly drop the idea of decocting, although it will help with the release of starches for the amylases when you do that step to bring the mash into amylase optima.

Try doughing in at 38C, wait 15 minutes (this will create the needed ferulic acid), then onwards to a stepped mash for the proteolytics, each 10-15 minutes 50,53,55 - and one possibly may want to step the amylase as well, each 20-30 minutes 62,65.
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Smellyglove
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Re: Bavarian Cold Fermentation

Postby Smellyglove » Wed May 31, 2017 10:21 am

Weizenberg wrote:I'm not surprised you didn't expose enough starches to the beta-amylase.

You most likely didn't use a tighter mill setting -- which prolongs the time you need to spend in the beta range.

I don't know what a German way of decocting should look like, but it's certainly not a good way to handle wheat beers.

For consistently good results you will need to:

1) mill the wheat malt at a much finer setting than for barley malt
2) do a lot more work in the lower temperature ranges.

You can most certainly drop the idea of decocting, although it will help with the release of starches for the amylases when you do that step to bring the mash into amylase optima.

Try doughing in at 38C, wait 15 minutes (this will create the needed ferulic acid), then onwards to a stepped mash for the proteolytics, each 10-15 minutes 50,53,55 - and one possibly may want to step the amylase as well, each 20-30 minutes 62,65.


Ah. But this is not a wheat beer, it's not my hefe. It's lagers, pima, vima, muma :)

I feel I got more "maltiness" and better mouthfeel when I did the decoction in the hefe, btw.
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Weizenberg
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Re: Bavarian Cold Fermentation

Postby Weizenberg » Wed May 31, 2017 7:11 pm

The principle remains the same.

A poor crush is easily compensated by dissolving starches with mechanical means (decoction).

As far as the extra perceived flavours are concerned, I'd say its really up to you since you are brewing it to your taste. Whatever works for you, stick with it as long as it makes you happy.

However, bear in mind that the higher protein content of "Brühmalz" (e.g. Munich or Melanoidin), may also require a little bit of work in the lower temps. Doughing in a Hochkurz at 55 or 58C is not uncommon in those instances.

Gut Sud!
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Smellyglove
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Re: Bavarian Cold Fermentation

Postby Smellyglove » Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:51 am

My crush is as good as I can get it.

But I did dough in at 50c..
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Re: Bavarian Cold Fermentation

Postby Smellyglove » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:00 am

I added krausen a few days ago, while transferring to keg, and bumped the temp to 12 where it sat for a few days, it's now down to 1.012, which is acceptable.

Edit: It's down to 1.011, going steady at 1c/day down towards lagering. I want to lager it for a good time. So I have one question:

It's currently spunded. I'm afraid of autolysis during lagering with final carbonation levels. Just let it ride at -1C with all the yeast generated from the speise.

Or, get it down to lagertemp, transfer it in a closed loop, to a second keg, leaving yeast behind?

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