Cold Fermentation method keeps failing me (stalling)

How are you fermenting?

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Weizenberg
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Re: Cold Fermentation method keeps failing me (stalling)

Postby Weizenberg » Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:41 pm

There are loads of cogs turning in this machinery. It's good to have a mind map of possible influencing factors and find the levers that work for your capabilities.

Yeast nutrients are definitively a good idea. In this respect I would say that it's a useful compromise for the home brewer.

For the romantics, there are still Servomyces

http://www.whitelabs.com/other-products/servomyces

But it's a markup I would not be prepared to pay.

There is a bit of an adjustment everybody needs to make to their process. Perseverance will eventually yield good results, professional or amateur alike.

Such is the art and science of brewing.
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Re: Cold Fermentation method keeps failing me (stalling)

Postby Weizenberg » Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:45 pm

Nick_D wrote:Sure wish I'd thought of the nutrient thing prior to my recent brew..... now I'm nervous :P It may become another sink dumper... but hopefully not! I guess if it was easy, everyone would be brewing amazing German lagers. Nothing worth doing is ever easy, as they say !


Don't dump. Sit it out!
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Nick_D
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Re: Cold Fermentation method keeps failing me (stalling)

Postby Nick_D » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:30 am

Weizenberg wrote:There are loads of cogs turning in this machinery. It's good to have a mind map of possible influencing factors and find the levers that work for your capabilities.

Yeast nutrients are definitively a good idea. In this respect I would say that it's a useful compromise for the home brewer.

For the romantics, there are still Servomyces

http://www.whitelabs.com/other-products/servomyces

But it's a markup I would not be prepared to pay.

There is a bit of an adjustment everybody needs to make to their process. Perseverance will eventually yield good results, professional or amateur alike.

Such is the art and science of brewing.


I didn't know about Servomyces..... looks interesting! Do the German macros use this? I imagine that could be quite expensive for them. I see it is Rheinheitsgebot compliant. I will certainly consider trying it at some point!
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Re: Cold Fermentation method keeps failing me (stalling)

Postby Nick_D » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:39 am

Weizenberg wrote:
Nick_D wrote:Sure wish I'd thought of the nutrient thing prior to my recent brew..... now I'm nervous :P It may become another sink dumper... but hopefully not! I guess if it was easy, everyone would be brewing amazing German lagers. Nothing worth doing is ever easy, as they say !


Don't dump. Sit it out!


Thanks! I certainly will. I'm brewing beers for my Oktoberfest party, which will now probably be a "Dezemberfest" party... :| Over ambitious perhaps.

Märzen, Pils (not really traditional Oktberfest, I know), Dunkel and Heffeweizen. I'll move on to brewing the next beers, and come back to check the Märzen after the Dunkel is on it's way spunding. Should give enough time to know if it's going the way of the Dodo.

I suspect the sample of beer I tasted from the collected yeast cake was cloying due to oxidation. It got plenty shaken around, and has had a couple days being exposed to air.
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Re: Cold Fermentation method keeps failing me (stalling)

Postby Weizenberg » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:18 am

Nick_D wrote:
Weizenberg wrote:There are loads of cogs turning in this machinery. It's good to have a mind map of possible influencing factors and find the levers that work for your capabilities.

Yeast nutrients are definitively a good idea. In this respect I would say that it's a useful compromise for the home brewer.

For the romantics, there are still Servomyces

http://www.whitelabs.com/other-products/servomyces

But it's a markup I would not be prepared to pay.

There is a bit of an adjustment everybody needs to make to their process. Perseverance will eventually yield good results, professional or amateur alike.

Such is the art and science of brewing.


I didn't know about Servomyces..... looks interesting! Do the German macros use this? I imagine that could be quite expensive for them. I see it is Rheinheitsgebot compliant. I will certainly consider trying it at some point!


A bottle of Edelstoff retails for 0.89€ in Munich.

These are razor thin margins. It's cheaper to have zinc plates in the Sauergut propagator and mash with the appropriate measures to help zinc and FAN to their optima.

For us, regular yeast nutrients from wyeast or white labs are perfectly fine. I add them before the end of boil.
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Weizenberg
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Re: Cold Fermentation method keeps failing me (stalling)

Postby Weizenberg » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:34 am

Nick_D wrote:Thanks! I certainly will. I'm brewing beers for my Oktoberfest party, which will now probably be a "Dezemberfest" party... :| Over ambitious perhaps.


You could try a classic accelerated scheduled, as published by Annemeuller:

https://edelstoffquest.wordpress.com/20 ... n-21-days/

I'm currently doing my Festbiers with this one.

Beware though, the jury is still out whether it's good enough for my purposes. I like the idea of reducing by-products with cold fermentation first, then conditioning warm.

I've currently 2 kegs at 10 Celsius in the lager chamber and they should enter their final code phase once I'm back from Munich end of this week.

Hope this helps. Best
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Re: Cold Fermentation method keeps failing me (stalling)

Postby Nick_D » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:17 am

Weizenberg wrote:
Nick_D wrote:Thanks! I certainly will. I'm brewing beers for my Oktoberfest party, which will now probably be a "Dezemberfest" party... :| Over ambitious perhaps.


You could try a classic accelerated scheduled, as published by Annemeuller:

https://edelstoffquest.wordpress.com/20 ... n-21-days/

I'm currently doing my Festbiers with this one.

Beware though, the jury is still out whether it's good enough for my purposes. I like the idea of reducing by-products with cold fermentation first, then conditioning warm.

I've currently 2 kegs at 10 Celsius in the lager chamber and they should enter their final code phase once I'm back from Munich end of this week.

Hope this helps. Best


Very interesting.So proceed as per usual, and then instead of cooling, allow to rise to 10C until transfer. Not nearly as radical other accelerated methods that have one conditioning/abusing the beer at up to 20C... I'll certainly be very interested to see how it turns out. My beer has reached full spund pressure now, so the yeast are still doing... something. I may pull a hydrometer sample to see what's going on (without opening the keg, obviously :D )
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Re: Cold Fermentation method keeps failing me (stalling)

Postby Nick_D » Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:25 am

Just took a hydrometer reading of my current batch (now holding at 4.5C until attenuation - if it ever gets there). It's dropped maybe half a point since transferring (6.5 days ago), and is now 1.0135 or so. Not terribly encouraging. How fast do other peoples secondary ferments reach final gravity ?
Brewing again tomorrow, but this time with some darned wyeast yeast nutrient. Pitching collected yeast slurry combined with an aerated starter I added yeast nutrient to.
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Re: RE: Re: Cold Fermentation method keeps failing me (stalling)

Postby Natebriscoe » Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:18 pm

Nick_D wrote:Just took a hydrometer reading of my current batch (now holding at 4.5C until attenuation - if it ever gets there). It's dropped maybe half a point since transferring (6.5 days ago), and is now 1.0135 or so. Not terribly encouraging. How fast do other peoples secondary ferments reach final gravity ?
Brewing again tomorrow, but this time with some darned wyeast yeast nutrient. Pitching collected yeast slurry combined with an aerated starter I added yeast nutrient to.

I think I would hold above 5.5c until fg is reached.
In my experience lager yeast stall below 42f.
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Re: RE: Re: Cold Fermentation method keeps failing me (stalling)

Postby Nick_D » Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:58 pm

Natebriscoe wrote:
Nick_D wrote:Just took a hydrometer reading of my current batch (now holding at 4.5C until attenuation - if it ever gets there). It's dropped maybe half a point since transferring (6.5 days ago), and is now 1.0135 or so. Not terribly encouraging. How fast do other peoples secondary ferments reach final gravity ?
Brewing again tomorrow, but this time with some darned wyeast yeast nutrient. Pitching collected yeast slurry combined with an aerated starter I added yeast nutrient to.

I think I would hold above 5.5c until fg is reached.
In my experience lager yeast stall below 42f.

I'm certainly in no position to disagree, but that seems to be in contradiction to what other people here seem to be experiencing ? The paper regarding LODO Helles brewing suggests holding at 3C until FG, and someone here mentioned holding at 4.5C as a safer bet. I don't mean to come across as ungrateful for the feedback. It's all good, and I appreciate every bit of it. Just confused by conflicting information.
I have held a batch a primary temp (8C) after transferring on an earlier batch, and it stalled all the same, so I suspect temp isn't the issue. I'm hoping adding yeast nutrient at the end of the boil, will finally get me over the line, if all other things are in order.

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