Big Pitch w/o O2 vs Smaller Pitch w/ O2

How are you fermenting?

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phishie
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Big Pitch w/o O2 vs Smaller Pitch w/ O2

Postby phishie » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:56 pm

LODO noobie here, looking to try it out with my next brew of a Festbier on Sunday.

I brew relatively small 2.5 gallon batches so purchasing 2x or 3x WLP830 packs for a full-size big pitch is not cost prohibitive for me.

If you were me would you do that and pitch all packs w/o O2 or just pitch 1 or 2 packs and add pure O2? No preference?

Thank you all for the wonderful resource, it's a great distraction at work :tu :lol:
Taswegian
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Re: Big Pitch w/o O2 vs Smaller Pitch w/ O2

Postby Taswegian » Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:27 am

I think yeast need oxygen for more than just reproducing - use some O2 (not necessarily pure O2 - aeration of some sort) regardless of your pitch rate. You'll still need at least 2 packs without a starter - maybe 3 depending on freshness. Remember to not oxygenate until AFTER the yeast is pitched though (I've been giving mine an hour or two with the yeast in before oxygenating).

So, in short, big pitch rate and oxygenation.
phishie
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Re: Big Pitch w/o O2 vs Smaller Pitch w/ O2

Postby phishie » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:18 pm

There really doesn't seem to be any negatives to pitching BIG so I'll do that regardless.

I don't have a DO meter so I was hoping to avoid needing to measure it all together (this weekend) by just pitching really big.

Plus I saw these comments from Big Monk and Bryan so it seems feasible to skip oxygenation if you pitch BIG *enough*:
Big Monk wrote:
missiletech wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vELwUsBmWQ

Has anyone taken the time to watch this video? It's pretty informative on pitching volumes and oxygen. I prefer (generally) to underpitch slightly (which is typically one package) to get the most character out of the yeast. Oxygen ppm is always needed. Regardless, listen to this very well spoken video. Cheers!

SteVe


Remember that oxygen has only one purpose for cell replication. That purpose becomes nearly null and void if you pitch enough healthy cells.

Bryan's wink wink comment hinted at this:

Bryan R wrote:Bigger pitches also require little to no oxygen..wink wink.. nudge nudge.
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Big Monk
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Big Pitch w/o O2 vs Smaller Pitch w/ O2

Postby Big Monk » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:24 pm

On the initial pitch you can get away with no oxygenation if the pitch is large enough.

Repitching will require some O2.

That's what I've gleaned from discussions on the topic at least.
Check us out at lowoxygenbrewing.com
phishie
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Re: Big Pitch w/o O2 vs Smaller Pitch w/ O2

Postby phishie » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:37 pm

Big Monk wrote:On the initial pitch you can get away with no oxygenation if the pitch is large enough.

Repitching will require some O2.

That's what I've gleaned from discussions on the topic at least.


That buys me some time and plays into my plan for this to be the start of my house yeast.

Hoping to pitch @ 30 million cells per milliliter, will just need to hide the homebrew receipt from my wife :lol:
missiletech
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Re: Big Pitch w/o O2 vs Smaller Pitch w/ O2

Postby missiletech » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:05 pm

[url]http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=118696/[url]

Interesting discussion. I've made some inquiry into the subject and am limited due to an all day appointment with army medical....ugh. :-)
phishie
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Re: Big Pitch w/o O2 vs Smaller Pitch w/ O2

Postby phishie » Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:57 am

missiletech wrote:http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=118696/

Interesting discussion. I've made some inquiry into the subject and am limited due to an all day appointment with army medical....ugh. :-)

Very similar question in there, although it seems most of the discussion went into ester formation.

The last post is on the money but inconclusive:

My theory was that I would get a very clean fermentation if I highly oxygenated my starter and let the yeast build up sterols, and then pitched into un-oxygenated wort (that is, I did not aerate the wort at all, only the starter). And, as expected, there was practically no lag phase at all (i.e. anerobic growth proceeded almost immediately). However, the resulting beer has a very odd taste to it. I'm not sure if it was due to the fermentation or to something else I did wrong, so I plan to perform the experiment again in the future.
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Brandon
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Re: Big Pitch w/o O2 vs Smaller Pitch w/ O2

Postby Brandon » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:11 pm

phishie wrote:
missiletech wrote:http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=118696/

Interesting discussion. I've made some inquiry into the subject and am limited due to an all day appointment with army medical....ugh. :-)

Very similar question in there, although it seems most of the discussion went into ester formation.

The last post is on the money but inconclusive:

My theory was that I would get a very clean fermentation if I highly oxygenated my starter and let the yeast build up sterols, and then pitched into un-oxygenated wort (that is, I did not aerate the wort at all, only the starter). And, as expected, there was practically no lag phase at all (i.e. anerobic growth proceeded almost immediately). However, the resulting beer has a very odd taste to it. I'm not sure if it was due to the fermentation or to something else I did wrong, so I plan to perform the experiment again in the future.


Good timing here, I have two Pilsners fermented the same way with the same yeast. One done exactly as described with well aerated starter then pitched (at high krausen) into unaerated wort. And the other batch also pitched at high krausen, but into aerated wort.

I'll try them tonight/this weekend and send any interesting thoughts.
phishie
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Re: Big Pitch w/o O2 vs Smaller Pitch w/ O2

Postby phishie » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:50 pm

Brandon wrote:Good timing here, I have two Pilsners fermented the same way with the same yeast. One done exactly as described with well aerated starter then pitched (at high krausen) into unaerated wort. And the other batch also pitched at high krausen, but into aerated wort.

I'll try them tonight/this weekend and send any interesting thoughts.


:tu :tu
missiletech
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Re: Big Pitch w/o O2 vs Smaller Pitch w/ O2

Postby missiletech » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:03 pm

Yes. If you are over pitching, it creates competition for resources, like oxygen, among the yeast so you want to supply that for them for a good fermentation. 


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I'm not sure what the details of this answer include but this is the second reply in regards to pitching and o2. I feel like just calling when I feel better.

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