Your experiences with SMB and different yeast strains.

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Natebriscoe
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Your experiences with SMB and different yeast strains.

Postby Natebriscoe » Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:01 pm

For me so far wyeast 1469 and wl530 either throw some sulfur or can't seem to clean up when using SMB on the hot side.
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Brody
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Re: Your experiences with SMB and different yeast strains.

Postby Brody » Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:26 pm

I have a pale ale now with 1469 (this is my 2nd with 1469 and SMS/Lodo practices)

The first beer I think I cooled too soon and had amazing tasting wort and fermenting beer but too much fermentation flavor in the final beer.

The one now is going great. After primary was complete I top cropped the yeast and dry hopped for a week. Then I did a keg-to-keg transfer with a starter (at high krausen) in the purged receiving keg waiting. I figured this would clean up any 02 introduced and give a fuel source to spund carbonate. So far this beer tastes great though it's not fully carbed or chilled yet.

So I'm guessing with enough time and not fermenting too cold the SMS should be ok with 1469. Like I was saying before though, I do think some of that 'it' factor comes from the combo of pilsner malt, a touch of residual sulfur, and a cold fermentation that will be missing in a lodo pale ale. But no doubt the hops come through fresher so I plan to keep it up for my pale ales.
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Re: Your experiences with SMB and different yeast strains.

Postby Taswegian » Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:43 am

I've done three LoDO beers with WLP530 (two Belgian pales and a blond ale). They all fermented as expected (no sulphur).
How much SMB are you adding?
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Brody
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Re: Your experiences with SMB and different yeast strains.

Postby Brody » Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:43 am

I had a bit myself in the first beer with the standard 100ppm. The key seemed to be giving it more time and a warm enough fermentation. The new APA has none.

I love that bit of match like sulfur in a lager but the rotten eggs smell or any traces in an APA is no good imo
Techbrau
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Re: Your experiences with SMB and different yeast strains.

Postby Techbrau » Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:39 pm

With a tight system that has minimal air exposure, 50 mg/l is a much more reasonable dose than 100 mg/l.
If you always do what you've always done, then you'll always get what you've always gotten.
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lupulus
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Re: Your experiences with SMB and different yeast strains.

Postby lupulus » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:07 pm

Hi all,
Here is a summary of the LODO beers I have done so far in case it helps you
Method BIAB - no sparge - recirculation - no splashing when getting the bag out
Dry yeasts rehydrated and activated with wort in an orbital shaker for 24h
(I do not normally use dry yeast but got a ton for free and HomebrewCon - sorry)
Liquid yeasts activated with wort in an orbital shaker for 24h
Lager yeasts are harvested from a previous lager that is 1-1.5 Plato from FG and use no more than 7d after the harvesting
All batches are about 19L - about 33L of water and - about 24L at the end of the boil

All beers won medals in major competitions in Texas - many more than one time

SMB 100ppm at mash in
Saison - Mangrove Jack M29 - Muted saison flavor initially with medium sulfitic (burnt matches) - Got better more spicy-saison and less sulfitic over time
Koelsch - WLP029 - A great Koelsch overall but medium sulfitic flavor noticeable

SMB 30ppm when conditioning malt + 1.5g Brewtan B before mash-in / Brewtan B 1g at the end of the boil
Munick Helles - Augustiner yeast - Excellent overall but bitterness and hop flavor more noticeable vs same recipe without the additives - Sulfur flavor similar to an Augustiner lager or previous brews (Mittelfruh labeled at 2.7% could have been higher AA ?? )
Helles Weissbier - Weihenstephan 3068 - Great beer - no noticeable sulfur in any form
Dampfbier - Weihenstephan 3068 - Great beer - no noticeable sulfur in any form
Grodziskie - Wyeast 1007 - Great flavor with hint of sulfur - but high hydrogen sulfide aroma - purged several times before bottling
(Used the same yeast for an Alt with no additives and turned out great; Oak smoked wheat malt may have interacted with SMB and yeast)
Munich Dunkel - Augustiner - Excellent beer - Normal sulfur as an Augustiner beer - no effect on hops or bitterness
Edelstoff - Augustiner - Excellent beer - Normal sulfur as an Augustiner beer - Same effect as in Helles above - more bitter than normal and more hop flavor than normal recipe
Bitter - Landlord clone - Timothy Taylor Wyeast yeast - Good beer again but the sulfite (burnt match) was noticeable and too high (only problem with the beer)

In summary,

Plan from now on is
- Keep Brewtan as-is for all beers.
- Add 1g Ascorbic Acid to mash-in to all beers.
For malt conditioning:
- Lower SMB to 0.5g for lagers and Weissbiers.
- Use 0.5g Ascorbic Acid for the rest of the ale yeasts.

Cheers
Last edited by lupulus on Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bilsch
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Re: Your experiences with SMB and different yeast strains.

Postby Bilsch » Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:22 pm

Lots of good info in that post.. thank you.
One question though, with your ales your using both smb and ascorbic in the mash ?
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lupulus
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Re: RE: Re: Your experiences with SMB and different yeast strains.

Postby lupulus » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:17 pm

Bilsch wrote:Lots of good info in that post.. thank you.
One question though, with your ales your using both smb and ascorbic in the mash ?

In the recent past described here, no ascorbic.
I will start using it from now on to replace SMB in ales (except weissbier yeast) and to lower the dose of SMB in lagers.

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Techbrau
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Re: Your experiences with SMB and different yeast strains.

Postby Techbrau » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:25 pm

Interested to hear how the stability holds up with AA over time.

Assuming your system's oxygen ingress is very low to begin with, have you tried using just SMB at a rate of about 30 mg/l?

If it were me, I would just add the SMB to the strike water. If you're conditioning with only 1-2% water by weight you really have nothing to worry about because it's not even close to enough moisture to create an aqueous solution. The conditioning water is practically atomized when you spray it anyway, which is going to instantaneously oxidize a lot of your sulfite. In that sense it's not even worth degassing conditioning water.
If you always do what you've always done, then you'll always get what you've always gotten.
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lupulus
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Re: Your experiences with SMB and different yeast strains.

Postby lupulus » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:46 pm

@techbrau
Thanks for your comment.
You do make a valid point on treating the conditioning malt. I have been thinking about it, and indeed, one is creating a layer of moisture on the outside of the grain at best. Best case scenario, the SMB carries to the mash, and worst case it gets oxidized before getting into the mash.
From my limited experience, eg the bitter, the SMB is not getting oxidized sufficiently during the conditioning and carries through the mash and into the beer as sulfite (burnt matches flavor).
BTW, I do not spray but just pour the water on top of the grains and stir, similar to what Weizenberg has described. Your point is not less valid because of this :-)
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