Avoiding the Transfer before Spunding

[Brody]

The question is wether this method will cause autolysis and the main variable there would be if I'm leaving too much yeast behind. The indicator I have that I'm ok is that the size of the yeast cake in my mason jar seems about normal. In addition, I'll be pulling off more yeast that settles as I take my samples for gravity/taste.

I'll keep you posted if I notice anything off with this batch but it will likely be inconclusive since this isn't the standard helles recipe I've been using but rather that bastardization of a bock.

The fermentation does seem to be taking it's time but that could be do to the high gravity. The beer's 2weeks on since brewday at the moment and only at 67% attenuation (1.064 down to 1.021), I've been getting over 80 with the paper helles and transferring. So lack of rousing may be a variable as well... but not really used to high gravity lagers.

[Weizenberg]

It is best to carry only as much yeast as necessary into secondary.

But you need enough yeast for secondary to complete successfully. The concentration of yeast in suspension when going into secondary should be between 12..15*10^6 cells per ml.

Some breweries introduce fresh yeast at this stage. Often two yeast strains are used, a flocculant (Bruchhefe) and a non-flocculant one (Staubhefe). Well known mixing ratios of these two are 2:1 or 3:1.

A simple way to keep track of your cells is by filling the beer into a measuring cylinder and record the height of yeast sediment after 24 hrs.

Hope this helps

[VolgaGebietDeutscher]

Ancient Abbey: what vessel do you use for primary and also what methods do you use to transfer to secondary to minimize O2 uptake?

[Techbrau]

I'll let AA chime in about his fermenters, but most of us around here are transferring to a keg as the secondary with about 4 gravity points (or 1% fermentable extract) remaing, making sure to fill it 100% of the way to the brim. It helps to cut the gas dip tube shorter when doing that, to prevent liquid from flowing out the gas post if you want to connect a spunding valve. Some of us purge the keg with CO2 before transferring, others don't. The active yeast will provide natural carbonation but have the nice side effect of very quickly scavenging any O2 that was picked up along the way.

[Owenbräu]

[VolgaGebietDeutscher]

Ancient Abby, I have used glass primaries due to issues with plastic buckets & leaking spigots, however, I may switch back in order to avoid the hassle of siphoning and associated potential of O2 pickup. Where do you purchase the 3'' domed lids with TC on top. I am looki g for a way to take quick and easy gravity readings and this might help. Any pics you could send would be helpful as well. Thanks!

[Owenbräu]

http://www.ssbrewtech.com/products/brewbucket
http://www.ssbrewtech.com/collections/a ... collection
http://www.ssbrewtech.com/collections/a ... collection

If you buy the plug, then you can also ferment under 2-3 PSI

[VolgaGebietDeutscher]

Thank you Sir! Very much appreciated!

[Owenbräu]

bitte schön

[Futur]

Just reviving this thread again. Is there any set time frame as to when we can expect the effects of autolysis to take hold?

The reason I ask this is I plan to complete primary fermentation under pressure (14psi) and maturation in a 25L keg using the Cold fermentation - warm maturation schedule without transfer for a total of 20 days. Filtration and cold storage will then follow.

I see that Kunze is very specific regarding the quick removal of primary fermentation yeast which will impact overall beer quality. Looking over his suggested fermentation schedules, he seems to indicate that damage can be done within the suggested fermentation and maturation timeline of ~20 days.

I'd be interested to see what others have experienced regarding beer quality regarding pressure fermentation and maturation in a single vessel without transfer.