Avoiding the Transfer before Spunding

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Brody
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Avoiding the Transfer before Spunding

Postby Brody » Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:37 am

With the Bock I have down now I tried something new. Instead of transferring off the yeast into a fresh keg and spunding, I simply used a picnic tap to blow off a liter of yeast & wort into my mason jar. (I actually did this in two steps to try to let more yeast settle) Afterwards I hooked up the spunding valve. With this I will ferment, spund, and serve in the same keg.

The yeast seems to have settled out fine in the fridge but is their any disadvantages anyone can see to this?

Pros: Less Oxygen?
Cons: Won't rouse the yeast, potentially more yeast/trub in the first pint or 2?
rcj1972
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Re: Avoiding the Transfer before Spunding

Postby rcj1972 » Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:27 pm

This seems like a brilliant idea!
Techbrau
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Re: Avoiding the Transfer before Spunding

Postby Techbrau » Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:36 pm

Watch out for autolysis. I've had it happen (confirmed via pH rise) on a couple beers that carried too much yeast into lagering (~100 grams sediment left at the bottom) after about 6 weeks.

I'm working on racking with fewer, hopefully healthier cells, closer to the attenuation limit (~0.5 Plato above). I start raising the pressure near the end of primary to pick up some carbonation so I don't need to carry much sugar over into lagering.
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Bilsch
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Re: Avoiding the Transfer before Spunding

Postby Bilsch » Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:30 pm

That seems like an interesting idea. Does it take a lot of pressure to force the gooey sediment up the dip tube?
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ajk
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Re: Avoiding the Transfer before Spunding

Postby ajk » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:19 pm

Techbrau wrote:Watch out for autolysis. I've had it happen (confirmed via pH rise) on a couple beers that carried too much yeast into lagering (~100 grams sediment left at the bottom) after about 6 weeks.

I've observed this same issue. I ferment in kegs, and if I forget to reconnect a blowoff tube after taking a sample and the keg goes too long under pressure, autolysis is the result.
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Brody
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Re: Avoiding the Transfer before Spunding

Postby Brody » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:45 am

Bilsch wrote:That seems like an interesting idea. Does it take a lot of pressure to force the gooey sediment up the dip tube?


Nah, I had it on pretty low, maybe 5psi?

Concerning Autolysis: I would guess any increased risk would depend on how much more yeast I left behind with this method. I think the move is to pull a little with a full length diptube, let the yeast settle again, pull some more, and so on. The yeast cake in my mason jar seems about what I'm used to. I tend to pull little samples a lot as well which should grab more yeast as it settles.

This is testable though as you mentioned right? I can test the pH of the beer and measure again after some time. A rise would indicate an issue? The off flavors would typically be a bit of a sharp yeast bite?
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ajk
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Re: Avoiding the Transfer before Spunding

Postby ajk » Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:38 pm

Brody wrote:This is testable though as you mentioned right? I can test the pH of the beer and measure again after some time. A rise would indicate an issue? The off flavors would typically be a bit of a sharp yeast bite?

Yes, testable. But off-flavors caused by autolysis are typically more offensive than yeast bite. Think rubber (like air from a tire), soy sauce, bad seafood, mercaptan, sewer.
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Brody
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Re: Avoiding the Transfer before Spunding

Postby Brody » Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:51 pm

ajk wrote:
Brody wrote:This is testable though as you mentioned right? I can test the pH of the beer and measure again after some time. A rise would indicate an issue? The off flavors would typically be a bit of a sharp yeast bite?

Yes, testable. But off-flavors caused by autolysis are typically more offensive than yeast bite. Think rubber (like air from a tire), soy sauce, bad seafood, mercaptan, sewer.


Ok, certainly never experienced that. At least that makes it easy to detect.
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Bilsch
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Re: Avoiding the Transfer before Spunding

Postby Bilsch » Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:45 pm

I could imagine staged removals of the sediment. Some with most remaining trub early on then more removal toward the end of active fermentation. Would rousing the sediment by keg agitation hurt the beer I wonder? A gentle keg rotation before tapping might dislodge and allow removal of more yeast. May even allow a cleaner yeast sediment to be harvested. Down side maybe though would be loss of more beer.
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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Avoiding the Transfer before Spunding

Postby Ancient Abbey » Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:52 pm

The autolysis will also release heavy metals too. You'll lose that fresh lingering lodo malt flavor in a week.
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