Lagering Temperature (and Time)

Lagering methods and times

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lupulus
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Re: Lagering Temperature (and Time)

Postby lupulus » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:42 pm

Eureka !!
After some pilot data, I think I have a working hypothesis.
Yeasts strains have an optimal flocculation temperature. This flocculation temperature is not the coldest possible temperature. In general, a lager yeast will flocculate faster when lagering at 5C than when lagering at 0C. This seems to apply to Kolsch yeast as well.
It is possible that the faster flocculation is related to the yeast running out of fuel, but given that I keg condition Kolsch with sugar for 7 days at 22C, the fact that Kolsch yeast drops faster at 5C vs 0C does not seem to be related to fuel.
NOTE that there is NO implication that 5C is better than 0C, it is quite possible that keeping yeast in suspension as much as possible prolongs the life of the beer, and also quite possibly, it is better to keep the beer at 0C once yeast has flocculated.
So, if you have a stubborn non-flocculating yeast and you want beer to clear faster, give warm lagering a shot :-)
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Smellyglove
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Re: Lagering Temperature (and Time)

Postby Smellyglove » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:55 pm

You say "lager yeast". Does this flow for both saaz and frohberg?
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lupulus
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Re: Lagering Temperature (and Time)

Postby lupulus » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:55 pm

You are treating my modest observations/ hypothesis as much more than they really are :-)
As it refers to your question, I do not even know what yeasts are Frohberg and what yeasts are Saaz, with the exception of 34/70 (Frohberg).
My observation was in three yeasts: Augustiner (Omega), Andechs (WLP) and Ayinger (WLP). Observations were not comparing the same beer style.
So, again, it is just a hypothesis that needs to be tested (as I indicated above). Nothing more, nothing less.
In probably the most recent/ comprehensive review on flocculation (Vidberg), not much is mentioned about temperature and what is mentioned is not relevant to this question. Even if it were investigated, we will need to know where our preferred yeasts fit, and it is unlikely we will know this in the near future.
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Weizenberg
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Re: Lagering Temperature (and Time)

Postby Weizenberg » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:16 am

To successfully use a yeast from another brewery with the same results, then one has to reproduce the same fermentation conditions (this includes vessel size). Good luck with that! It takes about 16 hours to fill a ZKV at Spaten or Augustiner.

I'd imagine such amount should last the home brewer for quite many a decade.

Going by with what allegedly x or y brewery is doing will yield mixed results. In order to achieve similar one needs to have access to the same plant. Augustiner could tell you the exact recipe, yet your likelihood to reproduce it will be slim.

There was a time when Sam Smith in Yorkshire brewed the Ayinger Urweisse under license. They had access to the exact water chemistry, yeast, fermentation schedule and ingredients. Yet, the end-result was a beer different enough for many to notice. Eventually, this joint venture stopped.

My approach has always been to focus on what's available to me and understand its uses and limitations. One can achieve remarkable results this way. With WLP838 I am able to make Helles that myself (and many of my friends) prefer to a lot of commercial examples out there, and this is what counts: whether I am happy with it.

One needs to invest a bit of time getting it right with WLP838, especially when using Sulphates. For my part, I even prefer it to the original W34/70 directly from Weihenstephan. The Wissenschaftliche Station strains are found in many of my favourite Bavarian breweries ;)
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