Issues with the process

Lagering methods and times

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Weizenberg
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Re: Issues with the process

Postby Weizenberg » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:44 pm

Cavpilot2000 wrote:I know it kinda violates pure low O2 principle, but I need my Pils to be presentation-ready before natural process will allow, so the other day I did two things to get me there.
One, I replaced the stock dip tube with a cut one. I did it with gas going into the keg but with the PRV open (I tried it once with the PRV closed and was rewarded with a beer fountain). It may have introduced a small amount of O2,but I think if a slight overpressure condition is enough to keep chemical agents out of Abramstanks, it's good enough to keep outside air out of my keg.
Anyway, after that, and still with gas flowing, I opened the lid and added a gelatin clarifying dose (using preboiled water for the gelatin solution and very gently lowering the measuring cup into the beer so as to not "pour" it through free air).
Then I cold crashed it.
I'll see tonight (48 hours later) what effect this two-pronged approach had.


... or you could have tried this instead.

Works very well indeed.
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Re: Issues with the process

Postby Cavpilot2000 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:22 pm

Weizenberg wrote:... or you could have tried this instead.

Works very well indeed.


I will keep that in mind for future batches, and I've done fast lager profile before (of which this is a variation), but I was trying to go with the normal Low O2 cold fermentation profile for my Pils.The problem is that it's taken longer than anticipated, and I ended up with way too much yeast trub in the lagering keg. My last batch was the same way - yeast sediment right up until the last glass. So That led me to the determination that I needed to cut some dip tubes (only half an inch). I am confident that if I tried to Umdrucken with full length dip tube, I would still suck an unacceptable amount of sediment into the new vessel.

Also, I've been attempting to do the "ideal" Low O2 method which discourages umdrucken to a third vessel, but frankly I don't think that's any worse than anything else. I, like the OP, just don't see how anybody is getting clear beer using kegs (only two of them) without cutting dip tubes.

Anyway, it's a learning process, and I am having to figure out how to adapt this to my current equipment.
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Cavpilot2000
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Re: Issues with the process

Postby Cavpilot2000 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:29 pm

Weizenberg wrote:... or you could have tried this instead.

Works very well indeed.


Also, the terminology used by the author is unclear to me. He says ferment "until between 1-2.5% residual extract is left to ferment". So if it's a 12 Plato beer, you wait until you are only 0.12 to 0.3 P from FG? That's a lot less than the normal recommendation of 1P, and I suspect it is erroneously stated.

Or does he mean 1-2.5P remaining? Or 1-2.5% Apparent Attenuation?
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Weizenberg
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Re: Issues with the process

Postby Weizenberg » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:36 pm

That's a typo.

Corrected now, Cheers!
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Re: Issues with the process

Postby Cavpilot2000 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:15 pm

Weizenberg wrote:That's a typo.

Corrected now, Cheers!


I'm sorry, but now I am even more confused - It says
"between 1..2. 1.0-0.5% residual extract is left to ferment."
Can you please explain this to me? Also, am I correct in assuming the a double dot (..) means the same as a dash, indicating a range of values between x and y. Like x..y (x-y)?
Elsewhere in the text it is used like this: "Duration 3..7 days" so I feel safe that it is a range indication (I've just never seen it before).
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Weizenberg
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Re: Issues with the process

Postby Weizenberg » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:57 pm

That phone editing doesn't work well. Soz but am busy for a bit.

What do you think it should be? I am sure you know the answer.

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Re: Issues with the process

Postby Cavpilot2000 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:36 pm

I know the guidelines for spunding, I just wasn't sure if you were suggesting something different, since it mentions being more than usual.
If your guidance is pretty much sound as normal, then that's cool - understood.

I'd definitely like to try this on ine of my upcoming batches.
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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Issues with the process

Postby Ancient Abbey » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:45 pm

Served from the spunding keg, no umdrucken, full length dip tubes.

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Re: Issues with the process

Postby Cavpilot2000 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:53 pm

Ancient Abbey wrote:Served from the spunding keg, no umdrucken, full length dip tubes.

Im not saying it can't be done - I just don't know how you do it.

My dip tubes suck so much yeast sediment, my first pils was still sucking sediment when it kicked.

Then again, what re you using as your primary? I suspect a conical, especially with a bottom dump option or rotating racking arm would be very helpful, but full-length keg tubes are pulling ridiculous amounts of sediment for me. For my own drinking I wouldn't care, because I am a huge fan of Kellerbier anyway, and to me taste is what's important moreso than clarity.

But for competition and presentation purposes, clarity is too important to dismiss.

Any tips?
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Weizenberg
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Re: Issues with the process

Postby Weizenberg » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:43 am

If you ferment in kegs, then a shortened dip tube is indeed helpful.

But that's not what we are talking about here. We are talking about normal length dip tubes in secondary so you can get it off the yeast whilst conditioning, avoiding surprises like autolysis.
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