Bottle Spunding

Filtering, fining, bottling, etc

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Taswegian
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Re: Bottle Spunding

Postby Taswegian » Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:41 pm

Big Monk wrote:As a short term solution PET sounds like a handy idea but I would think that over the long term oxygen ingress into the bottles would occur. They are rated for 10 volumes so pressure certainly isn't an issue.

I would also think that loosening the cap is also an opportunity for oxygen ingress.


I can't see loosening the cap being a problem - the quickly escaping CO2 will prevent any O2 from coming in (it's really no different to venting CO2 from a keg). Of course, if you left the cap off after the CO2 finished escaping you'd have problems. I guess the key here would be to quickly release some, but not all, of the pressurised CO2 from the bottle at a time.

O2 ingress may be an issue. I haven't noticed any difference between PET and glass on regular (non LoDO beers), even up to 18 months of age. Time will tell how this goes with LoDO beers though. I think the O2 barriers on newer PET bottles that are designed for beer (not soda bottles) are pretty good.
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Big Monk
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Re: Bottle Spunding

Postby Big Monk » Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:01 am

Bryan R wrote:Did you pull the download of this? I would like to play with it. Thanks


I changed the Google Drive link to a folder. I updated the file last night. I'm still playing with the hop section and it looks like using the equation from the paper to feed my existing structure yields values that are close.
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Weizenberg
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Re: Bottle Spunding

Postby Weizenberg » Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:15 pm

You could just do what a lot of German homebrewers do. Use "speise" (nourishment).

Save a given amount of unfermented wort and add that a bottling time. You need to take your beer temperature at bottling and the residual CO2 into account.

Wheat beer brewers do this a lot, and it's more relaxed since you have a bit more control when to bottle.

It will certainly use up any O2 left in the headspace.
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Big Monk
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Re: Bottle Spunding

Postby Big Monk » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:26 am

Weizenberg wrote:You could just do what a lot of German homebrewers do. Use "speise" (nourishment).

Save a given amount of unfermented wort and add that a bottling time. You need to take your beer temperature at bottling and the residual CO2 into account.

Wheat beer brewers do this a lot, and it's more relaxed since you have a bit more control when to bottle.

It will certainly use up any O2 left in the headspace.


I was reading up on speise but it seems to me that it would be much easier just to bottle of the fermentor.

That is of course, like you mentioned, if it's timed right. Using speise as you described would be great if I miss my bottling window.
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Weizenberg
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Re: Bottle Spunding

Postby Weizenberg » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:19 pm

Big Monk wrote:
Weizenberg wrote:You could just do what a lot of German homebrewers do. Use "speise" (nourishment).

Save a given amount of unfermented wort and add that a bottling time. You need to take your beer temperature at bottling and the residual CO2 into account.

Wheat beer brewers do this a lot, and it's more relaxed since you have a bit more control when to bottle.

It will certainly use up any O2 left in the headspace.


I was reading up on speise but it seems to me that it would be much easier just to bottle of the fermentor.

That is of course, like you mentioned, if it's timed right. Using speise as you described would be great if I miss my bottling window.


Of course you can bottle with extract left. That's just as good.

I use this (free) program. It's widely used in Germany and unfortunately, although there is english language support, there is no manual in English. It has a very useful Speise calculator though. Won't hurt (or cost) to have a look ;)

:geek:
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Big Monk
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Re: Bottle Spunding

Postby Big Monk » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:35 pm

Thank you for that. I'll check it out in the morning.

At ale temps, transferring would occur at or around 3-4 gravity points above terminal.

At lager temps, it's more like 2-3.
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Big Monk
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Re: Bottle Spunding

Postby Big Monk » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:10 am

Here is a link to the quick writeup I did on bottling:

https://cathedralofbeer.files.wordpress ... unding.pdf
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phishie
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Re: Bottle Spunding

Postby phishie » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:47 pm

Big Monk wrote:
Taswegian wrote:I've been brewing 25L batches (done four LoDO batches now) so I bottle some after the keg is filled. My method for the bottles:
- Use PET bottles (the brown ones that are made for beer)
- Get to know what proper carbonation feels like when you squeeze the bottle
- Bottle with about 1P of gravity left (enough to over-carbonate the beer)
- Check the bottles every day or two; loosen (then replace) the lid to release pressure if it's over-carbonated.
This works nicely, and from experience these bottles can handle WAY more carbonation than heavy glass bottles. It is a bit time consuming, but OK for small amounts of beer.


As a short term solution PET sounds like a handy idea but I would think that over the long term oxygen ingress into the bottles would occur. They are rated for 10 volumes so pressure certainly isn't an issue.

I would also think that loosening the cap is also an opportunity for oxygen ingress.


What did you decide on for your bottling solution?

I'm planning to bottle around 1/2 of my 3 gal batch. My current plan is when there is 1P of gravity remaining transfer half to a purged keg and half to a bottling apparatus. Only concern is bottle bombs if I don't use PET or thick glass bottles.
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Big Monk
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Re: Bottle Spunding

Postby Big Monk » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:03 pm

I plan on trying the process outlined in the PDF above on my initial batches of Helles.
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phishie
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Re: Bottle Spunding

Postby phishie » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:16 pm

Big Monk wrote:I plan on trying the process outlined in the PDF above on my initial batches of Helles.


Oops, sorry about that, I completely overlooked page 2 of this thread.

Thank you extensively for that write up, makes the process clear as day!

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