SMB at bottling to preserve hop flavor/aroma

Filtering, fining, bottling, etc

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Feurhund
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SMB at bottling to preserve hop flavor/aroma

Postby Feurhund » Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:15 am

I will be bottling a pale ale and IPA from a keg for a competition and had the idea pop up that a small (how small?) dose of SMB in the bottle before filling could help preserve hop flavor and aroma that is degraded by O2.

Any thoughts from those with knowledge and experience with post fermentation and use during packaging?

Thanks
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Brandon
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Re: SMB at bottling to preserve hop flavor/aroma

Postby Brandon » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:52 am

Feurhund wrote:I will be bottling a pale ale and IPA from a keg for a competition and had the idea pop up that a small (how small?) dose of SMB in the bottle before filling could help preserve hop flavor and aroma that is degraded by O2.

Any thoughts from those with knowledge and experience with post fermentation and use during packaging?

Thanks


Everything I've tried (SMB, SMB/Ascorbic acid) tasted like cheap wine for a long time, then finally aged out. We need something, but I don't know if this is it.

I think bottle conditioning is going to be the safest route until/when/if ever a rate that works can be determined.
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Feurhund
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Re: SMB at bottling to preserve hop flavor/aroma

Postby Feurhund » Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:11 am

Thanks for the insight.

I will avoid the "Great Pale ale except for the Cheap wine notes and lingering headaches" comments form the judges.
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doctorjames
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Re: SMB at bottling to preserve hop flavor/aroma

Postby doctorjames » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:44 pm

Probably the way ahead will be to lager with spunding using a pressure/temperature to yield slightly less than full carbonation and then mix in a calculated small amount of priming sugar/wort (with a miniscule amount of fresh yeast) to top this up. That way oxygen will get scavenged and there will be very little yeast actually in the bottle.

I believe this is what Sierra Nevada do with their cans.
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Ancient Abbey
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Re: SMB at bottling to preserve hop flavor/aroma

Postby Ancient Abbey » Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:19 pm

I've had minimal issues with bottling using a counter pressure filler. None of us have been happy with sulfite additions at bottling, partly because the residual SMB from the mash and a proper fermentation will leave more than enough.

From one of Jamil's podcasts, he claims SN filters their beer, then adds back a very specific amount of yeast for oxygen control and final carbonation. I've never been there myself.

I have had a couple of ales reach EVG before I got them spunded, so I added some sugar at kegging. Worked great.
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bensonledbetter
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Re: RE: Re: SMB at bottling to preserve hop flavor/aroma

Postby bensonledbetter » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:05 am

Ancient Abbey wrote:I've had minimal issues with bottling using a counter pressure filler.

I have had a couple of ales reach EVG before I got them spunded, so I added some sugar at kegging. Worked great.


Any of you guys use a Blichman beer gun? I'm wondering if its design would be worse for oxygen uptake.

Also curious, how did you add sugar at kegging? I was contemplating this yesterday as I have a beer that's essentially done fermenting in primary. Also I will not have the ability to keg before final gravity on most beers, meaning I need to figure this step out.

I'm assuming you added a sugar solution to primary before transferring to the keg, but I wasn't sure as that would require opening up primary and stirring, potentially exposing the beer to more oxygen.
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Re: RE: Re: SMB at bottling to preserve hop flavor/aroma

Postby Bryan R » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:33 am

bensonledbetter wrote:
Any of you guys use a Blichman beer gun? I'm wondering if its design would be worse for oxygen uptake.



I am and it sucks. But to be honest, I would bottle again before I would buy another cpbf of any sort.
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brewmeister13
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Re: RE: Re: SMB at bottling to preserve hop flavor/aroma

Postby brewmeister13 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:56 am

bensonledbetter wrote:
Also curious, how did you add sugar at kegging? I was contemplating this yesterday as I have a beer that's essentially done fermenting in primary. Also I will not have the ability to keg before final gravity on most beers, meaning I need to figure this step out.

I'm assuming you added a sugar solution to primary before transferring to the keg, but I wasn't sure as that would require opening up primary and stirring, potentially exposing the beer to more oxygen.


Boil your water and priming sugar. Pour mixture into keg being transferred into. Then transfer beer from primary to keg. The action of transferring will mix it up well enough. Also, don't forget to calculate for a keg, it is different than using the bottling amount and then adding it to the keg. It is half of that value if I remember correctly, but it has been a while.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: SMB at bottling to preserve hop flavor/aroma

Postby bensonledbetter » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:13 am

brewmeister13 wrote:Boil your water and priming sugar. Pour mixture into keg being transferred into. Then transfer beer from primary to keg. The action of transferring will mix it up well enough. Also, don't forget to calculate for a keg, it is different than using the bottling amount and then adding it to the keg. It is half of that value if I remember correctly, but it has been a while.


Thanks for chiming in. I should clarify that my question pertains to doing this with the low DO approach of prepping the keg. There is so much concern with oxygen uptake that the keg is filled with sanitizer, which is then pushed out with CO2. The keg remains closed during the transfer. The beer is allowed to finish fermenting in the keg.

Following the sequence above doesn't remove oxygen from the keg to the same extent.

So how do you prime the solution before sending it to the keg, avoiding oxygen exposure?
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Re: SMB at bottling to preserve hop flavor/aroma

Postby Bryan R » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:32 am

Dosing inline on transfer via a syringe. That's how I add anything.

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