Review of Sulfites in Beer

Books, websites, links to documents of interest.

Moderator: Brandon

User avatar
Ancient Abbey
German Brewing
Posts: 1189
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:23 pm

Review of Sulfites in Beer

Postby Ancient Abbey » Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:10 am

- The best do the basics better -
User avatar
narcout
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Review of Sulfites in Beer

Postby narcout » Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:56 pm

That was interesting.

This sentence caught my attention: "It is also believed that sulfite stabilizes intermediates of the Maillard reaction by forming adducts. For example, glyceraldehyde forms stable hydroxysulfonate adduct, which could contribute to the mechanism of the inhibition of Maillard browning by sulfite species (Keller et al., 1999)."

Could SMB's potential to inhibit Maillard browning be the reason that beers brewed according to the method in the lodo paper appear to be lighter in color than beers brewed without SMB?
Bryan R
Braumeister
Posts: 882
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:27 pm

Re: Review of Sulfites in Beer

Postby Bryan R » Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:09 pm

narcout wrote:That was interesting.

This sentence caught my attention: "It is also believed that sulfite stabilizes intermediates of the Maillard reaction by forming adducts. For example, glyceraldehyde forms stable hydroxysulfonate adduct, which could contribute to the mechanism of the inhibition of Maillard browning by sulfite species (Keller et al., 1999)."

Could SMB's potential to inhibit Maillard browning be the reason that beers brewed according to the method in the lodo paper appear to be lighter in color than beers brewed without SMB?


I don't think so, only because we observed the same color change with no smb, but pre-boil only water.
Natebriscoe
Assistant Brewer
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:57 pm

Re: RE: Re: Review of Sulfites in Beer

Postby Natebriscoe » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:23 pm

narcout wrote:That was interesting.

This sentence caught my attention: "It is also believed that sulfite stabilizes intermediates of the Maillard reaction by forming adducts. For example, glyceraldehyde forms stable hydroxysulfonate adduct, which could contribute to the mechanism of the inhibition of Maillard browning by sulfite species (Keller et al., 1999)."

Could SMB's potential to inhibit Maillard browning be the reason that beers brewed according to the method in the lodo paper appear to be lighter in color than beers brewed without SMB?

Let me start off by saying I am not a chemist. But to me lodo beers are lighter in color due to more particulate in suspension, ie polyphenols, tannins and such. Which would also explain the difference in flavor and dryness as well. So less oxidation to catalyze polyphenols, tannins and such and make them drop out.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Bryan R
Braumeister
Posts: 882
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:27 pm

Re: Review of Sulfites in Beer

Postby Bryan R » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:28 pm

I see you saying dryness quite a bit. I would say(and others) my low o2 beers are the exact opposite... They are not even close to dry.
Kit_B
Apprentice Brewer
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:40 pm

Re: Review of Sulfites in Beer

Postby Kit_B » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:51 pm

Bryan R wrote:I see you saying dryness quite a bit. I would say(and others) my low o2 beers are the exact opposite... They are not even close to dry.


Mine aren't, either.
Thereis also less particulate matter in mine, after going to lodo.
They aren't oxidized & the color is reflecting that fact.
User avatar
Ancient Abbey
German Brewing
Posts: 1189
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:23 pm

Re: Review of Sulfites in Beer

Postby Ancient Abbey » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:04 pm

Yeah, mine are well attenuated, but the maltiness is rich in flavor. I don't think of them as dry.
- The best do the basics better -
User avatar
Big Monk
Assistant Brewer
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:29 am
Location: New York

Review of Sulfites in Beer

Postby Big Monk » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:19 pm

Is your equipment properly calibrated? pH where it's supposed to be? Are you accurately measuring the SMB?

Everything you have been describing seems, on the surface, to be at odds fundamentally from the results of the more experienced members here. I'm curious if it's something basic you're missing.

Techbrau had a nice breakdown in your other post about how the SMB reacts with oxygen and how, devoid of any further volatilization of the sulfite and sulfur dioxide in the boil or reaction with other chemicals, more than 100 mg/l of sulfate could potentially be produced when fully oxidized.

Maybe your system isn't all that tight for lodo yet and you are using up all your scavenging ability and somehow leaving behind > 100 ppm of sulfate? I'm not sure.

I know Brun Water suggests < 150 ppm sulfate unless highly hopped so maybe the dryness presenting itself is a function of higher than normal sulfate content coupled with low hopping?
“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit.” Aristotle

"Messieurs, c’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot." Louis Pasteur

Check us out at www.lowoxygenbrewing.com
Natebriscoe
Assistant Brewer
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:57 pm

Re: Review of Sulfites in Beer

Postby Natebriscoe » Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:46 pm

Hold on everyone. In this case dry is a positive, maybe we are using a different terminology. Dry as in malty but not cloyingly sweet, as in a reason to add more crystal malt. To me malty and sweet are 2 completely different things.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
User avatar
Big Monk
Assistant Brewer
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:29 am
Location: New York

Re: Review of Sulfites in Beer

Postby Big Monk » Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:00 pm

You mean dry as in attenuated, correct?

I think the confusion stems from your earlier thread about the beers being "too dry, not in gravity but in flavor" leading me to believe it was in fact a negative. Apologies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit.” Aristotle

"Messieurs, c’est les microbes qui auront le dernier mot." Louis Pasteur

Check us out at www.lowoxygenbrewing.com

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest