Hot side oxidation and beer taste

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lupulus
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Re: Hot side oxidation and beer taste

Postby lupulus » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:59 pm

@Techbrau ref:
How much AA, BB, SMB, and PMB are you using in mg/l? 30 mg/l each SMB + BB is the sweet spot for me but each system (and water source) will be different. I found that AA dulled the malt flavor and since everybody in the literature has only bad things to say about AA I avoid it now.
I started the year with 0.5 g SMB / 1g AA/ 1.5 g BTB but added 0.5 g PMB to check whether I could get away with 1g of sulfites. Seems to be working ok for all styles. Will probably decrease to 0.5 g total sulfites for a yeast with which I had problems (alt yeast WLP1007)
In short 1g sulfites 1g AA and 1.5 g BTB. I also add 1g BTB 3-5 min before the end of the boil.
Ref AA - I do not understand the fear. The problem with AA is that it does not stays oxidized for long, getting reduced again and passing the oxidation to something else, but at minimum it will buffer oxidation reactions quickly. So, best case it will help you as an oxidation buffer, worst case, just passes the ball so to speak... I think it helps reduce the dose of sulfites.

@Nico
Thanks so much. I have that edition in English and indeed, that chapter has a lot of information. I already have the chemoluminiscence graph in my slides :-)

You guys are awesome!. Thanks for sharing! I will send you the presentation when completed.
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Weizenberg
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Re: Hot side oxidation and beer taste

Postby Weizenberg » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:31 pm

@lupulus

On an unrelated note....

My cousin is upgrading the microscopes in his lab, this just arrived.

Now i need to learn how to use it.

I can look it up, but if you know of any good resources I'd appreciate.

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lupulus
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Re: Hot side oxidation and beer taste

Postby lupulus » Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:03 am

@Weizenberg
What's the question?
How to use a microscope or how to develop a yeast lab?
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Weizenberg
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Re: Hot side oxidation and beer taste

Postby Weizenberg » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:32 am

lupulus wrote:@Weizenberg
What's the question?
How to use a microscope or how to develop a yeast lab?


Ultimately it's a yeast lab. But also to test against infections and do cell count and establish viability.
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Crunk
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Re: Hot side oxidation and beer taste

Postby Crunk » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:54 am

I'm jealous
Striving to brew better beer every time
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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Hot side oxidation and beer taste

Postby Ancient Abbey » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:07 am

- The best do the basics better -
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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Hot side oxidation and beer taste

Postby Ancient Abbey » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:03 am

lupulus wrote:A very interesting and amusing point by Meilgaard is the one in the next to last paragraph in pp.274 "Altogether the evidence for any positive flavour effects of oxygen exclusion is limited. Studies showing damage from oxygen were all performed on a lab scale and little effect is shown on an industrial scale."
This is the opposite of what the "homebrew gurus" have always said... "HSA may exist on an industrial scale, but it is a myth at the homebrew level

One of the summary points from our paper is that the effects are more significant at the homebrew scale than commercial due to the cube square law. As Tech has pointed out before, the surface are to volume ratio on commercial systems is 20X lower than on a homebrew scale, which effectively means they have a free mash cap. Maybe a better way to say it is that we need mash cap to match the surface are to volume ratio of their systems. De-gasing and gentle transfers is their main focus. However, this also works in reverse when it comes to the boil and removing volatiles, that is you get increased gas exchanges in both directions. Commercial breweries must boil much more vigorously than us to ensure adequate removal of nasties, e.g., DMS. Since our systems have so much more surface area relative to their volume, they will off gas much faster, even with a lower boil. An ideal system would have alternating geometries for their specific purposes (calculations below are based on the "ideal" ratio of 1.2:1 as purported by some manufacturers). Systems where you want limited ingress would be tall and narrow, i.e., the mash tun and bright tanks, and for maximum egress you would use short and wide vessels, i.e., the boil kettle and fermenters.

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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Hot side oxidation and beer taste

Postby Ancient Abbey » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:15 am

lupulus wrote:I started the year with 0.5 g SMB / 1g AA/ 1.5 g BTB but added 0.5 g PMB to check whether I could get away with 1g of sulfites. Seems to be working ok for all styles. Will probably decrease to 0.5 g total sulfites for a yeast with which I had problems (alt yeast WLP1007)

I have also found the hefe and belgian strains don't seem to like the sulfites, and I adjust my ratio more towards AA for these styles.
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Weizenberg
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Re: Hot side oxidation and beer taste

Postby Weizenberg » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:19 pm



Cheers! Useful indeed :)
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lupulus
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Re: Hot side oxidation and beer taste

Postby lupulus » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:46 am

@Weizenberg
The book Yeast by Chris White of White labs and homebrewer Jamil has all the info you need.
It should be cheap.
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