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Comments on the Helles Brewing Paper V3

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:21 am
by lupulus
Seems I was asleep at the wheel because I just found out the new version of the paper. Great job guys!!
The trade-offs section strikes the right tone and perspective. Fantastic!!

My small disagreements are:
- DO meter - Both Narziss and Bamforth clearly state that a DO meter is useless in the mash; Narziss recommends measuring sulphite consumption to track the tightness of the process. It is not minor in my view because it requires a considerable expense in the brewhouse that can be used for other tools/ hardware.
Potassium additions to the Mash - There is no rationale for this statement in Narziss book. Potassium in the malt and in the brewing water will lead to levels of about 200-300 ppm so 10 ppm more cannot create additional problems. I have tried both SMB and PMB with no apparent issues. Although given that by weight, SMB provides more MB than PMB, makes more sense to use SMB (unless you have PMB available). If you have a paper that justifies this statement, kindly share.

Thanks again !! :-)

Re: Comments on the Helles Brewing Paper V3

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:26 am
by Weizenberg
You can read about the potassium issue in Abriss. Am in London right now, but will dig out the relevant paragraph and page for you once returned.

Re: Comments on the Helles Brewing Paper V3

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:33 am
by lupulus
Thanks Nico. I do not think it is in Abriss (but I may be wrong).
It is however in the second book of Die Bierbrauerei, sec. 1.3.7
Obgleich das Malz grosse Mengen von ca. 500 mg/L in die Maischen einbringt, soll das Brauwasser nicht mehr 10 mg/L enthalten; es hat einen inhibierden einfluss aus manche Enzyme bei der Würzebereitung; es ist aber fur die Gärung von grosser physiologischer Bedeutung.

(Potassium) Although malt contains large amounts of potassium resulting in approx. 500 mg/ L in the mash, the brewing water should not contain more than 10 mg/ L; it has an inhibitory influence on some enzymes during wort preparation; however, it is of great physiological importance for fermentation.

I know I can be completely wrong, the way I read it, Narziss is not stating that 10mg/L of potassium has an inhibitory influence on enzymes. Narziss is just stating that potassium has an inhibitory influence on enzymes, and given that you already have 500 mg/L from the malt, your water should not have much more than that.

The potassium concentration in barley should logically be highly variable, and I know from chemistry that dissolved potassium from malt or from water is not different, so there is no logic in thinking that a mash with 400mg/L K from malt and 100 mg/L K from water will behave any different than a mash with 500 mg/L K from malt and no K from water.

Best wishes my friend!

Re: Comments on the Helles Brewing Paper V3

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:54 am
by Weizenberg
If you read carefully, he states that potassium has a negative influence on *some* enzymes and thus concludes that the liquor ought not to have more than 10 mgl.

He has more to say in the section about stabilisation in my older copy of Abriss, where he also mentions the use of sulfites.

IIRC he never went deep into the details though.