Hefeweizen

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Smellyglove
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Smellyglove » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:52 pm

Weizenberg wrote:Adjust as you like. What I gave you is a ballpark.


Thanks again.

I edited the next version to be

62% wheat
20% pils
10% munich 15
8% cara 53

But, a final question, for now.. Does the "good" proteins also fall out of suspension when I let the beer sit for two hours after chilling, or just the coagulated chunks? I guess everything falls out of suspension eventually but..
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Smellyglove » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:38 pm

I'm currently just testing the boiloff with water, what I'd get if I turned down my induction top one step. Almost zero movement, I don't think I dare to do a boil with this little movement.

I'll just boil this for an hour and do a second test without the lid halfway on and on the same intensity as I've been doing all the way. The lid gives me more rolling. I guess that boil off is not equal to boil intensiy when it comes to coagulation of proteins. I get a lot of loss even without any serious action in the boil. So I guess I'll be able to lower the intensity, even if the evaporation will be more, by removing the lid.

Edit: I'll treat the boiloff as a dead en pr now. I'm only boiling for a post boil volume of 16Liters, so it's a small kettle which isn't as narrow comparing to the surface as bigger kettles, so I'm concluding that I actually don't have a too vigorous boil, but that I "naturally" have a high boil off rate due to the surface area. When I'm boiling normally It's just slightly simmering.
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Weizenberg
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Weizenberg » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:20 pm

Boiling is often overlooked, but ever so important.

You need to boil sufficiently but without inducing undue heat stress. It's a real balancing act.

A bit of rolling (rolling boil) is considered the right amount by visual inspection.

The lid will help you distribute the heat uniformly -- which is highly desirable.
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Smellyglove
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Smellyglove » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:41 pm

Weizenberg wrote:Boiling is often overlooked, but ever so important. You need to boil sufficiently enough but without inducing undue heat stress. It's a real balancing act. A bit of rolling (rolling boil) is considered the right amount by visual inspection.

The lid will help you distribute the heat uniformly -- which is highly desirable.


Yes. After a few batches on this system 14 months ago I went back to scratch to figure out how I could achieve a low intensity boil, but still get evap enough to make sure I wouldn't get DMS (evap from the litterature about 8%, but I've realized I could go lower on evap).

However, during a boil one will get a "lid" of foam, which further isolates the wort, so the intensity will rise. I did my trials with wort and came to the result I've been using since. Lid halfway on, and a given setting on the induction-top. When going from 6 to 5 on my CASO there was no movement in the surface at all, but with water. But when some of the foam during a wort-boil coagulates, and I skim this off, there will be no foam, and the intensity will fall again to what I guess is a no-movement in the surface -boil again.

But. I'll try the setting on 5 (currently using 6), and see how it looks in there during a proper boil.

I'm brewing for national comp, so I don't want to screw things up. Which I always do by "trying something new" for comps. I'm currently brewing at an average of about 38 points (from two judges), but with a flaw of carbonation which I was aware of when I sent the beer for independent judgement a few months back. And got deducted for head retention, which I couldn't understand since the head retention at home was excellent.
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Ancient Abbey
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Ancient Abbey » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:17 am

The low protein content of pima aids clarity. It often comes in between 10-11% protein, whereas wheat and spelt are generally 13-15% and 14-16% protein, respectively.
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Smellyglove
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Smellyglove » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:52 am

I boiled at a lower setting today. WAY less coagulated proteins to scoop up. Boil was still what I'd call acceptable, barely some action at the surface, but enough that I'd call it adequate.

No fining, I'll let this one sit shorter than normal after boil, since I don't need to harvest the yeast from it. Have another batch I'll at the end of the week where I'll re-harvest.

Thanks for all your input so far. I love getting here, throw out some questions, get some feedback and reseaching it further on my own hand.
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Ancient Abbey » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:40 pm

I've got a batch going right now, split between WLP300 and WLP351. Wow, quite a difference. The 351 threw a TON of sulphur and smells of grape skins. It'll be interesting to see how it tastes after some conditioning. The 300 is spot on and beautiful.
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Weizenberg
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Weizenberg » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:36 pm

W68 and similar is what we associate generally with Bavarian Wheat.

Of course, our tastes are totally conditioned. Thus, it's not excluded that one cannot get great results with 351, but it may need a bit more time than expected to yield satisfactory results. Either way, I am sure that 'the dedicated' are able to reach stunning examples once enough time flowed into the effort.

So, what your impression of both profiles (as of now)?
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Smellyglove
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Smellyglove » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:10 pm

Well. FYI, being afraid of proteins settling out after chilling, and dumping it within half an hour into the fermentor is a terrible idea. I did this to one of the three hefes I brewed last week. Took a sample from it right now and the aroma was hoppy and the taste was somewhat astringent. the esters and phenols actually got pushed to the background because of this. 0.5g/l Magnum as bittering was all I used.

I'm looking at very poor attenuation of the two ones which had 10% caramalt. So I will not be doing that again. However, a prolonged 72C-step seems to have done some of the trick. I used my "house" recipe but prolonged that step on one of the hefes from last week.
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Weizenberg
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Re: Hefeweizen

Postby Weizenberg » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:17 pm

I hardly ever have a noticeable drop. But then, I may ferment quite a bit differently.

Be careful that the fermentation doesn't get stuck. This often happens when people don't pitch enough yeast into it to begin with (you need more than you think), only to find to their surprise that suddenly, after a few days, the attenuation begins to rise.

I find that a sensible Hefe needs a good 4-5 weeks of conditioning before it peaks.
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