Planning my new 10g System

[cinbers]

Hey guys,

i recently started to brew 10+ gallons beer, but right now most of it is improvised. I started form the fermentation site and got me a new shiny stainless steel conical fermenter with 14 gallons volume. What is already existing, too, is my Mash&Läuter - tank, with about 10g volume, a false bottom and sealing lid, well isolated. Right now im boiling in 2 6/7 gallon vessels. One of these will then be used as the HLT. What will be left to buy is a big boiling kettle, probably induction-heated.

Here is what i'm thinking of for the future, thin it would fit LODO-brewing:

concept_v01_brewsystem.png (34.49 KiB) Viewed 5406 times

Fittings all stainless steel, and connections via Tri-Clamp? What i'm not sure about is point A; to make a closed system, i have to drill another hole in my MLT. Then just let the wort flow on top of the mash?
Your thoughts and suggestions? Totally different concepts?

Greetings

[Kit_B]

Rather than drill into your MLT, you could create a floating mash cap with loc-line, similar to what Bryan is doing.

[Das alte]

What will you use to cool down the wort after it has been boiled? It may be a good idea to invest in a plate type Heat X. Adding a coil inside of the wort boiler and circulating ice water through it is another way that wort can be cooled, although not as rapidly as a Heat X cools wort. I use a plate Heat X which has cooling capability to reduce the temperature of near boiling wort to 10 degrees above coolant temperature with one pass at flow rate of 2.7 GPM through the process side of the Heat X. Some type of hop blocker is nice to have. I use leaf hops and a hop blocker. The hops fall to the bottom of the kettle and become a filter when the wort is drawn off and the hop blocker prohibits the hops from moving down stream. Pump inlet is connected to the process side outlet on the Heat X. Wort is drawn from boiler outlet, through a hop back for additional filtering before the wort enters the Heat X. Pump outlet is attached to the conical racking port. The racking port is turned upward which drives the wort against the dome which adds air as the wort drops down and splashes. When the tube is covered with wort, pump pressure is strong enough to agitate the wort.
You may need one more pump. When wort is being pumped from the lautertun into the wort boiler, a pump will be needed for sparge, unless gravity will be used, or perhaps, you are going to pump in all of the sparge water at one time before running off the wort.


Very wise decision on purchasing a stainless conical, money well spent. Since, the volume of the conical is 14 gallons it would be wise to increase the volume of the wort boiler. The mash tun that you have is large enough to hold 23 to 25 pounds of grain and with dough in volume of 1 to 1.1qt/lb there will be room to spare. With 23 to 25 pound grain bill, 13 to 15 gallons can be ran off at pils gravity. The water boiler should be a little larger, as well.
I use a 15 gallon mash tun and a 20 gallon lautertun. The mash tun easily handles 35 pounds of grain. When using 30 pounds of grain and three pounds of sauer malz, run off at low end pils grav is 22 gallons, high end is 20 gallons. Oktoberfest grav., 18 gallons. I use a 30 gallon wort boiler, 20 gallon water boiler and two 14 gallon stainless conicals.

[Owenbräu]

Wow, 3 lbs of sauer malz? You must have some alkaline water if you need 10% sauer malz.

[Brandon]

[lhommedieu]

"When using 30 pounds of grain and three pounds of sauer malz, run off at low end pils grav is 22 gallons, high end is 20 gallons."

Sounds like three pounds is a ballpark figure. Given that the buffering quality of Bo Pils is lower than darker malts and that acidity of different brands of malt varies, I would think that the conventional wisdom that adding one percent of acid malt lowers the pH of the malt by 0.1 pH is a ballpark figure as well. Hence it might be a good idea to have three pounds of sauer malz reserved, but to add it slowly and only use the amount needed to drop pH from an inherent 5.8 to 5.2 for example.

[mchrispen]

> one percent of acid malt lowers the pH of the malt by 0.1 pH is a ballpark figure

Highly variable based on water:grist ratio. Sauergut is interesting as an alternative if you can create it with a consistent titratable acid level with a reactor. At least then you could develop tables with measurements and refine to fairly predictable results (assuming you aren't switching maltsters all the time).

[Das alte]

Why do you think that 10% sauer malz is a lot? Experience with using the malt would tell a little different story, just as the other brewer has learned. Perhaps, you use acid, instead. The pH of sauer malz varies and the pH span is wide. Percentage numbers found in books are horseshoes and hand grenades close and mean nothing due to variance. When fine sauer malz is purchased, there is no information on the bag about pH level of the malt. The maltster needs to be contacted to find out what the pH is. Mash should be tested throughout the process and accurate records kept of when shift occurs. What would lead you to believe that the water which I use would be alkaline and for that reason I use 10% sauer malz? This isn't my first clambake.
I use boiled RO water and it goes into the tun at pH 7 for Pils, and 6.7 pH high filtered, boiled water is used for Lager. It's just what it is. Standard base malt, Ale and Lager/Pils will reduce pH to 5.8/5.7 very rapidly without any additions of acid in RO, just as the other brewer indicated. Do not think for one instance that a brewmaster sets mash pH at one level right at the start. The idea that 5.2 is perfect is not necessarily true. The pH shifts throughout the process and adjustments are made accordingly.
With thirty pounds of grain after three mash decoctions are performed, not including the liquid boiled at the end for mash out as a decoction, pH is 5 when mash goes into the lautertun. Run off pH at end of sparge will rise to 5.2 at 22 gallons, without having to lower pH of sparge water.
The sauer malz that I use is quite expensive. I do not add sauer malz all at one time. I shift pH after each decoction for the simple reason Mother Nature shifts things around. I crush three pounds of sauer malz and add it gradually throughout the process.
When a brewer chases after numbers, things that are much more important can be missed. When a person does not know the difference between an hay wagon and a Benz, he can be convinced that an hay wagon is a Benz. He can be handed a book on how to build an hay wagon, and he will build it, all the while thinking that he has built a Benz. Then, comes the day when he learns what a Benz is and on that day he realizes that he has been a fool.

[cinbers]

[cinbers]

To test some of my ideas, i tinkered some parts together and did a 10 gallon batch of my "Spezial Hell" with a somewhat LODO-attempt. I tried the yeast+DME method to scavenge oxygen and added SMB. Pumped the wort through a ss-coil (herms style) to get through the step-mash schedule. Wort tasted great so far. Boiled in my 2 old boiling vessels and then pumped the wort after chilling to 70°C through the bottom of my conical. Now its chilling to pitching temperature and slurry of a previous batch of W34/70 is waiting (since yesterday, very fresh). Avoided splashing of wort and couldn't find any leaks in the pumping system. What wasn't great was temperature control, my temp-probe was to short. Only available longer probe is made of copper, so i couldn't use it.

Recipe was 2% Acidic, 5% carapils/foam, 10% munich and the rest pilsener (all weyermann except the acidic), 27 IBU with Saaz and some Herkules, 12,5°P. Water with some CaCl2.