Effects of grossly over pitching yeast ?

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Weizenberg
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Re: Effects of grossly over pitching yeast ?

Postby Weizenberg » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:02 pm

obviously, this quote is with a 'clin d'oeil'. Humour often is a good vehicle propagating rather complex issues.
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Re: Effects of grossly over pitching yeast ?

Postby lupulus » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:31 pm

I use the same method as Nico

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Re: Effects of grossly over pitching yeast ?

Postby Weizenberg » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:36 am

I am not surprised, Ricardo. After all you spent long enough time in Bavaria to dig our culture ;)

Back to Nick's problem though:. You need to pitch more yeast m8. A lot more!

Use this calculator

https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pit ... alculator/

And select the high gravity 2.0 value for cell count. You could do with a little more even, when doing the cold fermentation. Fir the method I'd recommend the C White stir plates.

For a clean, Bavarian style beer, you need a lot more yeast than people tell you. A lot more. This applies to wheat beer as well.

Happy brewing
Last edited by Weizenberg on Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Effects of grossly over pitching yeast ?

Postby wobdee » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:33 am

I really like Brewers Friend, use it for every brew, great recipe formulation, PH calculator is really close and they have a great step by step brew day check list so I don't forget things.
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Re: Effects of grossly over pitching yeast ?

Postby Nick_D » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:42 am

Thank you to everyone who is chiming in here. Le me tell you it is very appreciated ! Apologies for not replying/acknowledging your advices recently. Been tough getting to my computer.
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Re: Effects of grossly over pitching yeast ?

Postby Nick_D » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:45 am

lupulus wrote:Apologies for commenting late. Here is another perspective in oxygenation. For the last 6 years, about 200 batches, I have been oxygenating the same way after advice from a German pro brewer. As a fermenter, I use 30L Speidels (33L total volume) filled with 21-23 L of wort. I close it, put it sideways, and shake / rock it for 3-4 min. For beers over 18P, I gave it another shake at 8-12h. That's it... Never had an under attenuated beer --because of yeast :-) --
Despite many system iterations, I have kept this constant because it never failed me.


Thanks for that Lupulus ! This is how I do my Ales usually too. Never had an issue there. Can you tell me if this is for harvested yeast also? or only fresh off of the stir plate ?
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Nick_D
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Re: Effects of grossly over pitching yeast ?

Postby Nick_D » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:55 am

Foleybräu wrote:Check that your fermentation chamber thermometers are calibrated, plus confirm you are measuring beer with thermowell and not chamber itself.

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Hey Foleybräu. Thermometers are calibrated every few months using an ice bath, so I should be ok there. I do have a thermowell in my fermenter, however I suspect it is problematic.

So the potential problem there, is that the thermowell goes deep into the centre of the wort mass. Meaning that when my control unit switches the fridge on (when temp reaches 0.3 C above set temp) it has to work for a while to reduce the temp as measured in the centre of the wort, if this makes sense. At which point the ambient temp in the chamber is significantly cooler than desired, and the wort closest to the edge of the fermenter is chilled well below what is desired (I assume).

I have gone back and forth with the thermowell. I've also tried just controlling ambient chamber temp, whilst taking regular readings from the thermowell to ensure temps aren't climbing too high. I'm thinking I might use two thermometers from now on. One reading and controlling the chamber temp, and one in the thermowell for reference. I can adjust the chamber based on what I see the thermowell registering. This would be more consistent. What do you think ?
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Nick_D
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Re: Effects of grossly over pitching yeast ?

Postby Nick_D » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:03 am

wobdee wrote:How do you perform your FFT? I've read some posts where guys using stir plates or shaking their samples often were seeing a bigger difference compared to the main batch. I just initially shake mine, let it sit for 48 hours and it's always within 1 point. I wonder if keeping the yeast in suspension by stir plate gives those FFT more attenuation?


Interesting.... I do mine of my stir plate. Though I have popped the flask in the slow cooker to ferment at a toasty 28 C with shaking (when the weather is cold).

Weizenberg wrote:
For what it's worth, I just rack a sample into a tube an plonk a hydrometer into it. Then that's left to it's own devices at room temperatures.

I found those readings quite reliable.

I tend to do this test with a sample 2-3 days into the schedule.


This sounds like a trusty low maintenance method. Not lazy at all sir.... economical ;) I will try this.
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Nick_D
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Re: Effects of grossly over pitching yeast ?

Postby Nick_D » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:15 am

Weizenberg wrote:I am not surprised, Ricardo. After all you spent long enough time in Bavaria to dig our culture ;)

Back to Nick's problem though:. You need to pitch more yeast m8. A lot more!

Use this calculator

https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pit ... alculator/

And select the high gravity 2.0 value for cell count. You could do with a little more even, when doing the cold fermentation. Fir the method I'd recommend the C White stir plates.

For a clean, Bavarian style beer, you need a lot more yeast than people tell you. A lot more. This applies to wheat beer as well.

Happy brewing


Thanks Nico. Looks good. 2 liter starter for a 10 liter batch, or thereabouts then?

If you could indulge me in another query regarding starter methods..... What is your method for getting your propagated yeast to flocc out so you can decant the spent medium ? This is something I'm struggling with. Do you simply turn off the stirrer, and allow your yeast to settle for a few hours, then decant, even with some yeast in suspension ? Or crash chill?

My biology friend told me that as soon as the yeast have reached maximum density for their given growth medium (which would only be a day or two), then they are at their highest vitality. Makes me suspect I have let my starters go way too long, in an effort to flocc all the yeast.

I have a hemocytometer on its way....

As ever, I appreciate your assistance. Thank you.
Last edited by Nick_D on Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Effects of grossly over pitching yeast ?

Postby Nick_D » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:26 am

Techbrau wrote:
Next time just try two packets of rehydrated dry W34/70 to establish a baseline. Depending on the results you get with that you can narrow down the list of possible causes.


The first test batch with dry W34/70 has gone into bottles. 1.048 > transfer at 1.013 (FFT 1.009). Didn't taste significantly different than my other batches.... so it will be interesting to see where it winds up.

I decanted the FFT (which had been in the fridge since reaching FG), added some very weak fresh wort with nutrient, and span it on the stirrer for 6 hrs. I dosed half the bottles with this yeast as an experiment. Sort of a pseudo krausening.

I'm letting the batch go at 12 C for a week, or two maybe, then I''ll lower by 0.5 C per day to 3 C, where I''l leave it for a month.

Next batch with 2 packs of 34/70, plus Go-ferm, will go in this week. I'm also going to try lowering my sulphite dose to 25 mg/L.

The quest continues.

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