Warsteiner Premium German Pilsner

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narcout
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Warsteiner Premium German Pilsner

Postby narcout » Sun May 22, 2016 4:03 pm

I just had a bottle of Warsteiner Premium German Pilsner.

To me, it has that distinctive German lager flavor that I don't really know how to describe. Do you all consider this beer as having "it"?

I'm wondering if it has that particular character you all are taking steps to replicate.
Brew4Fun
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Re: Warsteiner Premium German Pilsner

Postby Brew4Fun » Mon May 23, 2016 1:22 am

Several days ago I had a can of bitburger (premium beer?) and it has that typical German lager quality to it. I kept wanting to relate its character to some kind of breakfast cereal, and the memory of creamofwheat in my youth came closest. Then yesterday I read a description from Bryan R that used the same description. That, to me, is the description that works best did me at this time.

In the same post was mentioned honey bunches of oats as a descriptor.

Breakfast cereal descriptions seem to be common relations that can be made but I'm certain those will refine over time. It's a he'll of a lot better than "it" :D
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Re: Warsteiner Premium German Pilsner

Postby Bryan R » Mon May 23, 2016 7:45 am

Yes, Just about every German produced lager, has that.. Some more than other but its generally always there.. Lingering fresh malt( like chewing on fresh grain), and floral hops.
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Brandon
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Re: Warsteiner Premium German Pilsner

Postby Brandon » Mon May 23, 2016 5:29 pm

narcout wrote:I just had a bottle of Warsteiner Premium German Pilsner.

To me, it has that distinctive German lager flavor that I don't really know how to describe. Do you all consider this beer as having "it"?

I'm wondering if it has that particular character you all are taking steps to replicate.


Today I picked up a 6 of Warsteiner, 4-pack of Bitburger and a bottle of Flensberger. Drinking some Warsteiner now. I haven't had it in years...since well before I ever visited Germany for the first time. Yep, it's Germany in a bottle. Tasty. Clean, crisp malt, earthiness (in a very good way), balanced hoppiness. It does lack 'tank taste', which is like the characteristics I get from barrel aged wines. This doesn't have that dimension that some beers to have.
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Brandon
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Re: Warsteiner Premium German Pilsner

Postby Brandon » Mon May 23, 2016 5:32 pm

narcout wrote:I just had a bottle of Warsteiner Premium German Pilsner.

To me, it has that distinctive German lager flavor that I don't really know how to describe. Do you all consider this beer as having "it"?

I'm wondering if it has that particular character you all are taking steps to replicate.


Here's the best I've ever been able to describe 'it'. Sorry for such an obtuse word, but once you know it, 'it' says it all.

The 5 elements of “it” in German light lagers.

1) Aroma and first impressions
It: Fresh malt and hop aroma – sign of good things to come. Very clean, slightly sweet but refreshing
Not it: No aroma. Metallic, plastic, organic off aroma coming from the glass. Or overwhelming, cloying malt aroma, or strong, pungent hop aroma overwhelming the malt.
2) Getting intimate - First Taste
It: the “it” we refer to – fresh grain, depth of character and bright notes of a fresh field of grain and flowers. Sometimes spicy, particularly with Czech and East German Pilsners. But clean and balanced with the malt. Sometimes a minerally, salty impression from East German examples.
Not it: Dull, single dimension of malt. It’s there, but not light, fresh and rich. Overwhelming hoppiness as either flavor or strong bitterness.
3) Balance of character
It: the overall impression is of balance between malt, bitterness and hop flavor. Often floral, slightly sweet, and grainy. Rich, bright grainy flavor.
Not it: Dull and flat, one dimensional maltiness. Like old malt or darker malt that is heavy on the palate. Or muddy, overly complex flavors as from too many malts.
4) Mouthfeel
It: Clean, crisp mouthfeel. Refreshing and you want to take another sip. Clears out quickly.
Not it: Either thick and sweet or dry, puckering and thin.
5) Finish - Ahhhhh
It: briefly lingering malt flavor and aroma. If you lightly exhale your breath and sniff, you get fresh malt graininess, a bit of hop aroma, and depth of aging character, slight lingering note of sulfur.
Not it: Cloying sweetness or astringent dryness, almost bitter. Lingering hop bitterness that hangs in your mouth for a long time. Yeast bite.

I equate 'tank taste' to the same sensation you get from barrel aged wine. It's not a flavor per say, but a characteristic of the blending of all flavors, integration and final settling out of 'undesired' flavors. I used to lump it in with sulfur, but I think it should have its own place. It's not fermentation, it's aging/lagering.
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Brandon
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Re: Warsteiner Premium German Pilsner

Postby Brandon » Mon May 23, 2016 5:52 pm

Brandon wrote:
narcout wrote:I just had a bottle of Warsteiner Premium German Pilsner.

To me, it has that distinctive German lager flavor that I don't really know how to describe. Do you all consider this beer as having "it"?

I'm wondering if it has that particular character you all are taking steps to replicate.


Today I picked up a 6 of Warsteiner, 4-pack of Bitburger and a bottle of Flensberger. Drinking some Warsteiner now. I haven't had it in years...since well before I ever visited Germany for the first time. Yep, it's Germany in a bottle. Tasty. Clean, crisp malt, earthiness (in a very good way), balanced hoppiness. It does lack 'tank taste', which is like the characteristics I get from barrel aged wines. This doesn't have that dimension that some beers to have.


Just A:B compared Warsteiner to Bitburger. Warsteiner is much more flavorful and to my liking. Bitburger is super clean and light. Warsteiner is much more like the Pilsners I drink in [East] Germany.
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Re: Warsteiner Premium German Pilsner

Postby Techbrau » Mon May 23, 2016 6:01 pm

The problem with reducing "it" to the taste of breakfast cereal is that it misses out on all of the other aspects.

Brandon's 5 points are a great description that capture the flavor holistically. If I were to add my own two cents in my own words it would go something like:

Fresh, crisp malt flavors reminiscent of fresh grain, breakfast cereal, honey, flowers, and caramels. These flavors should be refreshing, not cloying or stale tasting. The wort taste test gives you a decent idea of what this flavor should be.

Fresh, vibrant hop aroma and flavor that's floral and/or spicy but with zero of the grassy/vegetal aroma/flavor. It should almost remind you of dry hop aroma, but less forward and without the grass.

Yeast character that makes me feel like I'm holding a glass of liquid nitrogen. It's very slightly estery in a floral (not fruity) way and there should be a hint of sulfur.

The balance of flavors will be different from beer to beer. But together they should be a harmonious symphony that begins with the aroma, continues throughout the sip, and lingers long after you gulp it down.

The only way to truly understand the flavor is to experience it. Once you know it, it's unmistakable.
If you always do what you've always done, then you'll always get what you've always gotten.
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narcout
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Re: Warsteiner Premium German Pilsner

Postby narcout » Mon May 23, 2016 6:18 pm

The particular flavor characteristic I'm thinking of isn't really breakfast cereal like, it's almost like a subtle spiciness (maybe a very light tang?).

I can smell a beer and know right away if it's going to have this flavor. I need to start tasting more continental lagers, but I pick it up in Warsteiner, Bitburger, and Heineken.

Yesterday, I also had a Sierra Nevada Summerfest and an Angel City Brewing Pilsner. Both were good; neither one of them had the flavor I picked up in the Warsteiner.

Are any of you guys going to the NHC? It would be cool to sit down and taste some beer with you all.
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Brandon
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Re: Warsteiner Premium German Pilsner

Postby Brandon » Mon May 23, 2016 6:35 pm

narcout wrote:The particular flavor characteristic I'm thinking of isn't really breakfast cereal like, it's almost like a subtle spiciness (maybe a very light tang?).

I can smell a beer and know right away if it's going to have this flavor. I need to start tasting more continental lagers, but I pick it up in Warsteiner, Bitburger, and Heineken.

Yesterday, I also had a Sierra Nevada Summerfest and an Angel City Brewing Pilsner. Both were good; neither one of them had the flavor I picked up in the Warsteiner.

Are any of you guys going to the NHC? It would be cool to sit down and taste some beer with you all.


Drinking the Flensburger now. It's exactly like Warsteiner but oxidized WRT malt, hops and mineral character. At first I thought it might be unique fermentation character but no, it's oxidation. I'm surprised they ship Flensburger here. I'd think Warsteiner is a much larger brewery and has been shipping to the US for many decades. I always think of Flensburger as a northern Germany regional beer.
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Brandon
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Re: Warsteiner Premium German Pilsner

Postby Brandon » Mon May 23, 2016 6:38 pm

narcout wrote:The particular flavor characteristic I'm thinking of isn't really breakfast cereal like, it's almost like a subtle spiciness (maybe a very light tang?).

I can smell a beer and know right away if it's going to have this flavor. I need to start tasting more continental lagers, but I pick it up in Warsteiner, Bitburger, and Heineken.

Yesterday, I also had a Sierra Nevada Summerfest and an Angel City Brewing Pilsner. Both were good; neither one of them had the flavor I picked up in the Warsteiner.

Are any of you guys going to the NHC? It would be cool to sit down and taste some beer with you all.


FWIW, Firestone Walker Pivo Pils and Victory's Helles and Prima Pils don't have it. Victory's Helles lager might have an odd note of it now and then, but it really lets me down when I have some. Ack...too many beers tonight...what's the German (or Austrian) brewery that opened a brewery in California? Not Diebels...shoot, can't remember. But I always wonder if it is 'it'? I would expect so. But, if that's the case, they all these others should, too.

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